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GaryJ51 wrote:

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Proximo wrote:

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GaryJ51 wrote:
Yes, I'm getting an e9280t replacement.  It's the same thing with Win 7 preinstalled.  We do have some test data that shows a slow dowm from 5.18 to 5.22.  My son ran all the tests and has the data on his system.  I'll try to get it together and post them when I get a chance.  I think we have results on 5.18, 5.21, and 5.22.  We used passmark to run the tests.  I also want to run the same test when the 9280 arrives.  We also have a volunteer willing to run the test on an e9180f.

 

I tried 5.22 on my current system and still had the freeze problem.  I've tried everything that made sense and still had the same issue, which is why I've concluded that there is a range of severity with whatever is defective, as some users are apparently having some success.

 

I'm also a little skeptical about some of the posts I'm starting to see pop up here, especially ones that seem to take a rather favorable view of HP, and acting as if we are somehow not getting the same results.  I have to wonder why someone who doesn't have the problem would spend the time posting here???

 

You don't think HP could be trying to change the tone of the forum and make it sound like we're all a little bots in da head???  Do ya? 

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GaryJ51:  I think many people would like to see the benchmarks showing a degradation going to 5.22 from 5.18 or 5.13 on the same machine.  If you can figure out how to post it:  that would be great!  

Watching these posts for a while, I don't think HP, or anyone else, is mounting a campaign to warp opinion one way or the other. 

There are at least four different mainstream viewpoints on the origin/reasons for the freezes.  These can be thumbnailed as (1) mobo is defective, (2) problem in the BIOS/system integration,  (3) drivers not matched to machine (i.e., the latest, or correct), and (4) graphics card/graphics driver is somehow culprit.  These viewpoints have substreams and factions.  There are several other viewpoints that crop up from time to time (e.g. bad Vista is to blame).

These points of view ebb and flow through the postings and are contending to some degree, with one another.   The posted information suggests (to me) that each of the above may be causing the freeze problem in a subset of the machines, and to "repro" Hemingway; "there is no one truth, it is all true."

Consequently, a good if not "best" strategy for people posting  on the thread is to share information, remedies tried, successes and failures, test results and so on, and then develop a plan for their machine. 

So far 21 machines of posters have moved into the "no longer freezer" category since 9/27, in part through information sharing on the thread,  in part through HP updating the BIOS, in part through experimenting with the machines and working the system for replacements, so there is  "no one solution" either.  

There is no doubt about it, the "cold boot" issue we're all experiencing is nothing but a motherboard problem. Everybody that replaced their motherboard with a different one aren't reproing the problem, myself included.

On my side, here are the tests I performed over the last 3 months:

1. Updated all drivers: still reproed.

2. Reinstalled Vista via recovery: still reproed.

3. Installed clean Vista: still reproed.

4. Installed clean RTM Windows7: still reproed.

5. Changed optical drive: still reproed.

6. Changed HDD twice with good known HDDs: still reproed.

7. Changed memory: still reproed.

8. Changed video card twice with good known cards: still reproed.

9. Changed power supply with good known PSU: still reproed.

10. Updated BIOS twice: still reproed.

11. Changed CPU heat sink: still reproed.

12. Changed motherboard (without changing anything else): NO REPRO!

Note that the only two pieces left that weren't replaced in my PC are the case and the CPU, and because the mobo replacement fixed the issue, it's clear that it's not either of them that are the culprit. 

It's clear as water and nobody should be debating or arguing this anymore: the Pegatron motherboard will either need to be rev'ed and/or replaced with a working one for those PC experiencing the "cold boot" problem.

There may be other hangs and BSOD issues that can be resolved in other ways (driver updates, BIOS settings, etc), but I've personally not experienced any of them and cannot discuss about them.

Proximo,

An update.  My e9180t (1.04 MOBO, 5.22 BIOS) has been stable as a rock for almost two months now.  It goes to sleep when unattended several times a day and wakes up with no problem.  Computer is turned off at night and performs perfectly the next day after the initial boot---no warm reboot has yet been needed.  Did an in-place install of Win-7---went smoothly, runs fine (except that the boot time is a little longer than it was with Vista.)

I admit I approach this machine with crossed fingers every time, but I certainly have no current problems or complaints. 

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GaryJ51 wrote:
So how do you account for the fact that everyone who has replaced their motherboard has seen the problem disappear?

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GaryJ51:  only 2 or 3 people have reported changing out the mobo for a different brand and putting the components back (nounours, damndonzi, ???) and then not having a problem. 

About 27 people have transitioned from a freezer to a non-freezer, only about half (gotta go count) of those reported a change of motherboard.  But they reported HP replacing a v1.03 with a V1.04, or getting another computer from HP.    So you you wonder how to count that.  Nounours counted them in, as mobo changers, but  . . . you might challenge that because   . . .

. . . there are a group of people who have had the mobo changed but still have problem with freezing.  For example,  you have reported you have had four machines, so you have had four new motherboards, have your problems disappeared?

Anyway, the problem with "the mobo is the problem" argument is the roughly half of the 27 who went from freezer to non-freezer without changing a mobo in any way whatsoever.  DavidKim, edtmark, jgadbaw, GeoGus  etc.  you can just read them off the list (not a second machine, no mobo repair). They way outnumber the different brand mobo changers at present, and are about 50-50 with the HP for HP mobo replacement count. 

So "everyone" is not quite every one!

I left this post for awhile (e9280t owner), but checking in to see how its going. 

This recent analysis/conversation makes me think about software bugs. I'm not particularly hardware savvy, but I suspect there is a correlation with some software bugs' lifecycle. 

Being a software engineer for 20+ years, I have seen many a software bug where it sometimes takes 4-5 contributing factors to manifest the problem.   Environment and context is everything.    You can alter or fix or adjust one of the factors to stop seeing the problem.   Doesn't mean the true "bug" is fixed, but the customer will believe it is.    Then another software engineer gets another report of another similar problem a year later from another customer.  Maybe the old "fix" becomes the 6th contributing factor for the new customer.   on and on it goes.  The original customer may run into it again when a new layer in their environment is added.   (think new USB 3.0 e.g., upgraded widget or whatever).  The underlying true bug is still lurking waiting for someone to truly  fix it,  peeling off all the layers to even see it.

not sure how or if this relates to current situation, etc, but it helped influence me to return my e9280t while I had the chance.  if they had come clean and truly admitted their problem (with or without a final resolution) or extended their 21-day refund period or something along those lines, I might have stuck with it.

I'm not sure which list my computer is now on, but it should be on the locks-up-less but still locks up list.  I updated the bios to 5.22 (or whatever the current one is), did the suggested driver update (for firewire?).  The video update did not seem to apply to my card.  Am doing the cold boot/restart routine. 
The computer seems to be stable most of the day.  However if I leave it on overnight I find it locked in the morning.  This morning, however, after a cold start and a restart it locked about 15 minutes into what I was doing......

It's a strange (in my experience) lockup.  I never lost anything.  For example, the lock up this morning was in the middle of an online home design program I was running from the JCPenney site.  After a hard reboot I was able to restore the internet session and more-or-less continue where I left off.  When it has locked up in the middle of a Lightroom Digital photo editing session, I figure "oh no, I'm going to have to start again!".  But no, everything I have done to whatever I am working on is fine after the hard reboot.  It's like, during the lockup, most of the computer is functioning.  You just have no (USB) keyboard or mouse funtionality.

I sent the following email to Pegatron

Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:43 AM
To: Ronnie Xue(薛偉超_PSH)
Subject: Re: message left inPegatron forum

Hello, can you please tell me if anything has been resolved concerning HP and Pegatron Motherboards.Any information you can give would be appreciated.

I received the followingemail.

Dear Sir,

I’m sorry to say that unfortunately, though our engineer havestruggled this problem for weeks, we are not able to find the root cause.

So we have no solution yet.

Best Regards

薛偉超 | RonnieXue 
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<text removed for privacy>
www.pegatroncorp.com

My question now is why would Pegatron be looking for a solution ifthey didn't believe there was a problem?

I realize that this email does not prove their MOBOs aredefective, but it makes me strongly suspect they are!

Pls ck your PM

MM