HPE-180t upgrade to new case problem! [ Edited ]

[old_geekster]

BPR5016,

I see that Big_Dave has taken good care of you.  He has a lot of knowledge.  We both attempt to make our posts a learning tool.  For instance, the difference in cases.  There is a major difference, when gaming especially, with a full-size case.  Most, not all, full-size cases will fit several form factors; ATX, mATX, etc. The mobo in your computer is mATX (9.6" x 9.6"). There should be no problem finding a case to fit it. The only problem may be the front connectors, as previously stated.

Newegg is very good about providing helpful articles and videos on building/upgrading computers.  Modular PSU's, in past years, were known not to be very stable.  This is not good for overclocking.  However, in recent years they are very acceptable.  I am even considering using one in my next gaming build.

You did a great job of managing the cables.  It is difficult to get them placed that nicely.  It would be easier with the modular PSU.

[bpr5016]

Old geekster,

Yeah thanks for the support! You guys are awesome. I'm really enjoying this discussion and believe that I have a better understanding of the various components within my PC and how they all interact.  Thanks for pointing out that my mobo is a mATX, I'll keep that in mind when I look to upgrade to the full-size case.

I'm not comfortable enough with the ins & outs of computers to trust myself with overclocking just yet, but I can appreciate how a stable modular PSU would be beneficial.  I didn't know that a modular PSU was an option when I was designing my rig, I just looked at the wattage and what my GPU required.  I wish I would have now because the cable management can get a bit tricky at times.  Definitely something to keep in mind when I'm looking to upgrade.

Big Dave,

I did some research online with regard to the orientation of the PSU and found out that most people generally have their fans facing down.  I was interested to learn that the "down-facing" fan orientation allows hot air to be drawn into the PSU and exhausted out of the case.  Also, the writing on my Thermaltake PSU was upside down with the fan pointing up, so I decided to switch back to the "down-facing" fan orientation (like in the image I posted previously).

Unfortunately, the only temperature reading I got during the brief time I had the PSU drawing cold air into the case was a 90C reading off of SpeedFan.  This was after about an hour of running Skyrim.

Since I switched the PSU back to the "down-facing" PSU fan orientation, I downloaded and ran the GPU-Z software you mentioned under similar conditions.  My GPU Temperature reading leveled around 88-90C with a couple spikes at 92C.  These temperature ranges were associated with GPU Loads of ~77% on the low end (ie 88C) and ~98% on the high end (ie 92C spike).  Are these the important variables or should I be looking at other ones? 

An idea that got brought up on another forum I posted on a while back was to attach a small fan to the side of my tower to bring air into the case and improve the air flow / heat loss.  This would be an immediate fix for my heat/air flow issues until I am able to transfer to a full-size case.  

I was considering the set-up below, where the red circle I drew indicates where the fan would go.  The 2nd image shows (what I believe) would then be my air flow path(s).  The blue arrow is cool outside air, and the red arrows are hot inside air.

Case Side Panel - Possible Fan Mount Location

Improved Air Flow Diagram

[Big_Dave]

Hi BPR5016,

Yes most PCs do have the fan pointing down but as you have seen in the reference HP material it's mounted both ways for this cabinet.  Even with the fan up, there is still room to draw air from inside the cabinet. Mine fan is up and the PC runs cool even with the 960 chip and a fanless heat sink.

I am contemplating building another custom using the i7-820 and a mobo supporting PCI-E version 3.  I may reinstall the original parts back into the e9280t system and use the SSD, PSU, video card, BR player and SATA III hard drive to help start the new custom PC.  I have my eye on the Rosewill Challenger U3 cabinet (cheap) as it has the USB 3 and estata ports in the upper front and also has three fans.  The previos Rosewill Future  being used for my custom PC has four fans although I only use three.  I need to move on to newer technology and new learning.

[bpr5016]

Hey Big Dave,

You make a good point.  I went back and re-read the article you mentioned and agree that the PSU can be mounted both ways.  How will the fan up be able to draw air from inside the cabinet? I’m assuming most of the air would be drawn from outside the cabinet, with a small amount being exhausted from the inside as well.

One new thing I realized is while reading a discussion (see link below) about power supply orientation is that in some cases the power supply is fixed at the bottom of the case (mine is fixed at the top).  In these instances, the “down-facing” PSU fan orientation would be pulling air from outside the case.  Perhaps the generally accepted “down-facing” PSU fan orientation that we talked about is for PSUs fixed to the bottom of the case.  That would give me some confidence in switching my PSU back to the up-facing fan orientation (which I intend to do later tonight).  Since I already have a log on my temps while under heavy load for the down-facing fan orientation, I’ll be able to run them again tonight and make a good comparison.

Finally, I checked out the Rosewill Challenger U3 cabinet you mentioned and it’s an excellent suggestion with a pricetag that’s easy to swallow.  Are you upgrading from a standard HP case?

PSU fan orientation discussion:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1071521/power-supply-fan-facing-up-or-down/10

[Big_Dave]

Hi,

There is always going to be a debate over fan up or fan down.  Most custom cabinets have a direct air intake for the power supply either at the top of the cabinet or from the bottom of the cabinet.  That fact does send a message that it's better to draw cool air into the PSU from a direct air intake rather than from inside the cabinet. Some might argue that the big fan on the PSU helps draw out hot air from the inside.  However, this will increase the PSU temperature.

In a full size cabinet with big fans it might not make a big difference unless the system is really put under a big overall wattage consumption usage.  In a small cabinet then perhaps when the PSU fan is down it will help exhaust the hot air.

If the PSU is mounted on top of the cabinet, then there might be less of a chance for convection heat to warm up internal components as compared to a bottom cabinet mounting. However, this is cause for more debate.

The proof is in the pudding as they say. You might find it better one way but if you should switch cabinets you will perhaps have a different result.

[bpr5016]

Hey Big Dave,

Last night I switched my PSU to the fan-up orientation like we discussed and put it through its paces while running GPU-Z.  My GPU idled at about 45C (which is okay I think).  I ran it for about an hour under heavy load and the log recorded my GPU temps to be around 88-92C (very similar to the fan-down orientation).  It would only hit 92C in short spikes, then level at about 90-91.

I did some additional research about normal GTX-470 temps and found that most users agree that the card runs hot.  Some users explained that as long as it’s between 85-95C then it isn’t anything unusual.  Some boasted high temps of only 75-80C but I expect they have ridiculous cooling systems set-up.  The “danger” max-temp is at 105C and when reaching that the card will shutdown. 

Some people reported success with decreasing the GPU temp by controlling fan speeds to set levels.  I don’t have a clue how to control my fan speeds and am worried that doing so might screw up my heat exhaust system.  But I have a little more confidence in my temp readings after finding that the temperatures I’m seeing aren’t that unusual.  What do you think?

[Big_Dave]

Hi,

I tend to stay with the fan curves (rpm speeds) as set by the manufacturer with some exceptions.  My custom PC is using lower fan curves for the cabinet fans to reduce fan rpm when the PC is idle or barely being stressed. This keeps the PC very quiet as the PC is sitting up high.  I actually replaced the front cabinet fan with a low rpm model fan.  I want air moving but I don't want to hear it moving if it is not needed.

[old_geekster]

Hey Guys,

It seems there is always a debate over everything to do with computers.  For instance, leaving them on all of the time or turning them off.  I have been turning mine off for 25+ years without any component failures.  Also, I have always mounted my PSU with the fan facing down.  Just started that way and kept it going.  I have no other reason.

The temps that you are experiencing with your video card seem to be fine.  I wouldn't be concerned if it were mine.  Since I normally overclock the card and the CPU (never over 50C), I watch this closely.  I don't have either OC'd at this point.  I am going for longevity.  I want to prolong the life for at least a year if possible.  My next gaming build will be Crossfire with two XFX, ATI cards.  I like AMD's Vision Control Center.  It allows me to control the fans and overclock the card very easily.  I will have a full case with some 200mm fans, as well.  As Dave said, the less RPM's, the less noise.  Therefore, while gaming with the sound turned higher, I set my fan at 50% or higher.  It is louder, but runs much cooler.

[bpr5016]

Hey Guys,

Sorry for my delayed response, I’ve had a hectic weekend with family & friends visiting.  My fan speeds are currently automatically controlled by my system (depending on the stress level).  Noise isn’t really an issue for me, I would rather try to maximize the amount of cooling I’m giving my system.

What do you use to control the fan speeds?  I have an nVidia card so am unsure if AMD’s Vision Control Center will be applicable for my system.  Also, I’m curious if the PC Wizard or GPU-Z software I recently downloaded will allow me to do this. 

I’m still thinking of installing a fan (unsure what size) onto the side of my cabinet to bring in cool air from outside my PC (as depicted in the flowchart above).  This would hopefully increase cooling on my GPU and mobo components, allowing for some increased longevity and peace of mind.  I’m assuming I could just hook this new fan up to one of the crazy-long cables that is hanging out of my PSU?

@old geekster,

Does your fan-down orientation that you use draw air from outside the PC or from inside the cabinet and exhaust it out?