Selecting PCI-e Raid Controller for Pavilion m8167c conn to iStar PM ZAGE-D-5SAES-PM [ Edited ]

[sixtyfourcustom]

Hello and thank you for your future help with my problem.  I am not sure what PCI-e version 1 or 2 that my motherboard has.  I have these three istar components, "

S-5B-JB
ZAGE-D-5SAES-PM   http://istarusa.com/raidage/products.php?model=ZAGE-D-5SAES-PM
BPN-350V2-SS

comprising a 5 bay external hard drive array.

I have been looking at a few host controllet cards as noted below:

        1.  NewerTech MAXPower 6G PCIe eSATA RAID Controller card with port multiplier support.  http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/MXPCIE6GRS/  Add two eSATA ports w/ data transfer rates up to 500MB/s. Controller RAID 0/1/5/10 or non-RAID Independent/Span JBOD for up to 10 Drives. 3 Year NewerTech Warranty. (NWTMXPCIE6GRS)

     This controller is advertised as a 1 x 500mb/sec band width.

There are other controllers out there.  I saw one that had 2 internal sata ports and 2 external esata ports.  Another is boasting two separate 500mb band width ports.

I guess that I just need some direction here.  I am thinking that my $$ limit will be right around the $100 range and there seems to be quite a few that fit the bill.  I would like to use one that is sata 3 for future insurance.

Can someone please help?

Thank you,

sixtyfourcustom

Update: 

        2.  I found one of the other controller card I was talking about so I will throw it into the mix, also.  It is by DAT OPTIC.  I am going to assume that there is an eSata versoin of this controler.  http://www.datoptic.com/2x-sata3-6gb-controller.html   It does offer the duel channel then just below it says that it offers 3x Sata 3 6 Gb/s ports.  Will have to do some more research on this one.  Aftter looking a little harder at the page it is on I am even more confused about exactly it does offer.  I am concerned about the rather low price.

Using PCIe V2.0 bus host, our S3-PCIe21 base on Marvell-88SE9128 chip-set provides dual SATA3 (6.0Gb) data channel that harnesses the massive storage space up to ten (10) hard drives if connect to our SPM3726, or simple two (2) SSD, SATA and configured as hardware raid 0/1 with encryption capable.

The 2x SATA ports on S3-PCIe21 have a bandwidth of 6.0Gbps per port, making them ideal for connecting fast SSD. To further enhance the performance end user can increase with configured as raid0 or raid1 for high reliable. It features advanced hardware encryption to protect user data on the fly and hardware RAID to offload the host CPU.

A complete suite of RAID 0/1 software is provided, including the OS device driver, BIOS/FW, and a management utility

Support for FIS Based Port Multipliers
Traditional SATA controllers only support CMD based switching which can only access a single drive at a time, limiting performance to that of the drive being accessed. The S3-PCIe21 supports FIS based switching which accesses multiple drives simultaneously, effectively aggregating the bandwidth of all the drives, including CD/DVD/BD drives

For OEM opportunity please contact us

Part Number: S3-PCIe21 - 3x SATA3 (6.0Gb/s) ports PCI express V2.0 controller Hardware Two SATA3 (6Gb) and 1x PATA base Marvell-88SE9128
Hardware encryption to protect user data on the fly
Hardware RAID 0/1 to offload the host CPU Host Interface One lanes PCI Express (PCIe) V2.0 5Gbps Device Interface Two independent SATA3 ports @ 6.0Gbps
fully support PM ware (port multiplier)
1x PATA (ATA133) Speed SATA III - 6.0Gbps
Compatible to SATA I - 1.5Gbps. SATA II - 3.0Gb Operating Environment Temperature: 0o C to 50o C
Humidity: 5% to 95% non-condensing Support OS Windows XP/Vista/2003 Server/2008 Server /Win7*- 32bits
Windows XP/Vista/2003 Server/2008 Server - 64bits
Linux 32 / 64bit

        3.  Also by Dat Optic  http://www.datoptic.com/2esata-2sata-port-pcix-controller.html

Using PCIX at 133MHz, our eSATA_PCIX2i base on SiI-3124 chip-set provides a data channel that harnesses the massive storage space up to 20 hard drives with unlimited HDD size. Multi-terabyte is easy to archive with our Port Multiplier bridge and eSATA_PCIX2i
The 2x eSATA and 2 SATA ports on eSATA_PCIX2i (base on SiI-3124 chip-set) board have a bandwidth of 3 Gbps per port, making them ideal for connecting multidrive storage solutions like those based on the SPM394 hardware raid5 or SiI4723 or SiI4726 SteelVine® Storage Processors or storage solutions based on industry standard SATA port multipliers such as the SiI3726.

Over 500MB/sec transfer have been measure with four eBOX-R5 configure as RAID50. It is a LOW COST, FAST and PROTECTIVE storage
The eSATA_PCIX2i is compatible with Windows, Linux and Mac OS X operating systems. With Flash-able BIOS our eSATA_PCIX2ii can be use as RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD mode.

Support for FIS Based Port Multipliers
Traditional SATA controllers only support CMD based switching which can only access a single drive at a time, limiting performance to that of the drive being accessed. The eSATA_PCIX2i base on SiI-3124 chip-set supports FIS based switching which accesses multiple drives simultaneously, effectively aggregating the bandwidth of all the drives, including CD/DVD/BD drives

Part Number: eSATA_PCIX2i Hardware 2x eSATA and 2x SATA (internal) PCIX/PCI compatible Host Interface PCI2.0 or PCIX slot Device Interface Four independent SATA ports @ 3.0Gbps
2x eSATA and 2x SATA port
fully support PM ware (port multiplier) Speed 4x Deskstar™ 7K1000.C 1TB as raid0 ~ 300MB/sec
4x eBOX-R5 as RAID 50 over 580MB/sec (20x Deskstar™ 7K1000.C 1TB) Operating Environment Temperature: 0o C to 50o C
Humidity: 5% to 95% non-condensing Support OS Windows XP/Vista/2003 Server/2008 Server /Win7*- 32bits
Windows XP/Vista/2003 Server/2008 Server - 64bits
Linux 32 / 64bit; Novel Netware
Macintosh OS 10.4, 10.5, and 10.6.x Mode configuration: BIOS Flash-able via DOS or Windows

[sixtyfourcustom]

There is updated content with links to component websites.  I have tried to add any information that might have been missing from my original question.  If there is anything else that is needed for me to get some help with this, please let me know.  I look forward to hearing from you.

Daryl

[Big_Dave]

Hi Daryl,

You might give PC Wizard a try.  Launch PC wizard, click on mainboard then try PCI Bus PCI Express.  HP doesn't publish PCI-E bus specifications that I have seen.

PCI-E 2.0 came out in early 2007 so your PC might be at the level since your PC was release May 29, 2007.

The bad news is that the original HP motherboard in the m8167m has one PCI-E x16 slot for video and one PCI-E x1 slot.

To really find out what the true bandwidth on the PCI-E x1 slot is on your PC would be to do a benchmark with some "trial" equipment.  At that point you could then decide if the bandwidth meets your requirements.  It would not make any sense to buy high performance equipment, install it on a low performing slot and then find out that it doesn't meet your performance expectation. The actual bandwidth will be quite a bit less than the theoretical interface rating.

[sixtyfourcustom]

Dave,

Thank you so much for the response.  PC Wizard is quite a tool.  I will copy some of the information below for you to take a look at if you don't mind.  I am a little lost with all the facts and figures.  I am, however, able to glene the fact that I have PCIe version 1.0 and not the wanted 2.0.

 General Information :     
Number of PCI Bus :    4
Number of PCI Connectors :    0

 Peripheral Type :     
Device 2, Bus 0 :    PCI-Express
Device 29, Bus 0 :    PCI-Express
Device 1, Bus 1 :    PCI-Express

 General Features :     
Support PCI Mechanism 1 :    Yes

 Bus Information #0 :     
Device :    G965/P965 Chipset Processor to I/O Controller
Device :    G965/P965 Chipset PCIe Port 1
Device :    82566DC Gigabit Network Connection
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI #4
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI #5
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) USB EHCI #2
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) HD Audio Controller
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) PCIe Port 1
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI #1
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI #2
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI #3
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) USB EHCI #1
Device :    82801 Family (ICH2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11,63xxESB) Hub Interface to PCI Bridge
Device :    82801HH (ICH8DH) LPC Interface Controller
Device :    80801HR/IR/JR (ICH8R/ICH9R/ICH10R) 6 PORT SATA I/O Controller cc=RAID
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) SMBus Controller

 Bus Information #1 :     
Device :    G86 [GeForce 8400 GS]

 Bus Information #2 :     
Device :    Inc. HDPVR-1250 model 1196

 Bus Information #3 :     
Device :    FW322/323 IEEE1394 OHCI FireWire Controller
Device :    PCI CX11256 Soft Modem

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz

 PCI-Express Information :     
Number of connectors :    1
PCI-Express Base :    0xF0000000

 Bus PCI-Express :     
Device :    G965/P965 Chipset PCIe Port 1
Version :    1.0
Port :    2
Physical Slot :    #4
Slot Populated :    Yes
Link Width :    x16   (max. x16)
Link Speed :    2.5GB/s

 Bus PCI-Express :     
Device :    82801H (ICH8 Family) PCIe Port 1
Version :    1.0
Port :    1
Physical Slot :    #2
Slot Populated :    Yes
Link Width :    x1   (max. x1)
Link Speed :    2.5GB/s

 Bus PCI-Express :     
Device :    G86 [GeForce 8400 GS]
Version :    1.0
Port :    0
Link Width :    x16   (max. x16)
Link Speed :    2.5GB/s


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I am not at all sure of how to bench mark the PCI band width.  Again, If you don't mind, could you give some direction with this.  I see that the PCIe band width is or I guess you call it band width is 2.5GB/s, but no details on the PCI slots.  I think the more I write the more stupid it sounds.

The cost of RAID controller cards doesn't seem that high and I could purchase with the intent of moving the controller to the fabled, "New Computer."  But with the version only being 1 and not 2 adding another wrinkle, I am not sure what to do here.  I believe that HP shows one SATA connector available but I can't find that information with PC Wizard.

Thank you again, Dave, for the help.

Daryl

[Big_Dave]

Hi Daryl,

What you really want to do is to benchmark using the actual equipment so that you can actually see the results of how the new equipment performs in your PC.  Theoretical interface specifications are just that.  That why I suggested that you see if you can get some equipment on loan or consignment without actually buying something.

Know what the return policy is before you buy anything.

[sixtyfourcustom]

Hello, again, Dave,

I will see what I can dig up.  I am not sure how to actully bench mark something.  My guess that there are utilities that one can obtain and use.  Possibly windows will have a solution to benchmarking?  I will start digging around and see what i can find.  You have been a big help but you didn't just come out and say, "do this."   That is good because it causes me to step outside my comfort zone.  That is when the real learning starts.

I would ask that you give your oppinion on marvel chipsets vrs Si chipsets as they are used in RAID host controllers.  I know that there are varribles that make it impossible to say one is better than the other in all instances but it is kind of like asking this, "Have you had better luck with Ford Cars or GM Cars?"  See, I am not asking for a definitive answer here.  Just an honest opinion.  By the Way, I don't even consider if I have had better luck with ford or Gm.  My Dad liked Mopar and GM so there you have it.  A prefference based on almost no data.  Can't help it.

My other delima is choosing hard drives for the array.  I am settling in on almost any size just so I can get good drives.  Some of the DOA rates on drives are very far past being funny.  SeaGate is, I think running second to none in that department.  But I look inside my m8167c pavilion and i see two SeaGate ST3320820AS 320Gb 7200 rpm drives.  They have been churning away since 2007, I guess.  Just a few months ago, I realized that one drive was just sitting there, with hardly anything on it.  So I started archiving some photographs there.  I was advertised as a Raid Setup.  I probalby chose the wrong button the first time I turned it on.

I will stay on task now.  Samsung has a drive that has low DOAs but with thousands of reviews it is running 25% one egg.

I am about to pull out some of my precious hair, here, Dave!  Magazines tip toe around and try not to hurt their advertisers feelings so those are mostly just a wast of time.  So please give me some great advise that will save my hair  , Dave.  Please.   And thank you again for helping me on this.

Daryl

[sixtyfourcustom]

Dave,

I was looking at RAID host adapters and I ran accross this.  I guess that I really don't mind and if it go me an answer to a question it would be good in that respect.

It looks as though there is a website dedicated to piraiting posts from this forum.  There are no comments on any of the HP forum posts but my most receint post was also tacked on.

I will see if I can place a onenote file here and then I will also place a link to the site.  I just don't know about this.  It seems strange to me.  Tell me what you think.

Daryl

Link to the website in question is below:

Piraited HP Forum Post

[Big_Dave]

Hi Daryl,

So you want to put a V8 in a Volkswagen? You may find that other issues will limit your performance.

Marvell vs SI?  Actually I would go for SanForce but then that's another topic discussion.

If $$ were not a limitation and pure performance was the criteria then the OCZ Revo card would be my choice. Of course you would need another motherboard to support that technology along with a bigger billfold.

Some of the newer SATA III hard drives do have improved performance.  Even if the drives are configured as RAID, SSDs are going to have superior performance.  You an configure hard drive RAID in many different ways but a cache miss will always bring in mechanical delays.

BTW, I do have two Hitachi 1.5 TB hard drives in my latest build.

[sixtyfourcustom]

Hey, Dave,

In my day, I would have put a V-16 into a VW but I was, fortunately, limited by a few things.  I did, however, manage to build a very mean go-cart with a 205 cc Honda Twin, complete with 4-speed transmission.

Now if I could just find that old magic and then everything would fall into place.

Daryl