e9280t problems and complaints

[hpsad]

It's frigging unbeleivable that HP is still lying to customers!  The problem is NOT an over heating CPU!!!  The motherboard manufactuer (Pegatron) point blank admitted there is a motherboard problem that they are NOT able to fix!!!  I don't care if HP liquid cools these systems, it will not fix a defective motherboard!!!  The e9280 and e9290 use the exact same motherboard as the e9150 and e9180, there are estimates that 2 out of 3 motherboards have the freezing problem!!!  Even Pegaton doesn't understand why HP continues to use this motherboard after being told about the unfixable flaw!!!

Either the HP sales rep is a complete idiot or is blantantly lying!!!!  If you haven't bought one yet, don't, if you did then get a refund before it's too late!

[JimCapeCoral]

hpsad:  Wow, that's pretty heavy stuff.  Not questioning your statements, but would you cite the sources of your information, i.e.,(1) mobo (Pegatron) point blank admitted etc., (2) the e9280 and e9290 use the same mobo ...etc., (3) estimates 2 out of 3 mobos have the freezing problem.  As I said that's pretty heavy stuff.  If the sources prove reliable that's enough for me (goodbye to the e9280).

[gardengal5]

>... why HP continues to use this motherboard after being told about the unfixable flaw!!!

Granted, they ought to step back and re-engineer, but do we understand why the 9280's with the same motherboard are mostly not failing like the 91xx's are. 

Do we really understand what the difference is between 91xx and 92xx?   My guess is some workaround/hack/avoidance to co-exist in peace with thefaulty mobo., but I don't think we know for sure why the 9280s are okay (mostly) with the same mobo.  

Maybe it is a particular i7 flavor.  Many are offerred.   we need a spreadsheet of the specs of the bad 91xx's

For me, I am i7-920.  no definitive freeze/bsod, but suspicious in general of stability, esp USB related.

[randallintacoma]

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jimmyt wrote:

I have seen these numbers here and they are the ones I don't believe, because it is an untenable business scenario.  Asus/Pegatron and HP have too much at stake.  It's not the end of the world to scrap a motherboard or put a run on hold.

If the failure rate were anything like one third of a half-million machines, the downside for HP trying to hide it is too great.  I think they'd suck it up and do a wholesale recall.  Continuing to deliberately sell machines with a known defective rate that high risks bringing down a whole lot of people, and as an employee of a large corporation I just have trouble buying into that sort of conspiracy.  It's true corporations are loaded with idiots but that particular scenario is a bad business model for the actual individuals involved--even if they are the idiots.  Just my 2 cents.

It's been my observation that some computer owners have more trouble than others, or maybe a particular buyer got a disproportionate number of machines from a bad run.  While I'm not pretending HP wouldn't obfuscate, I just have trouble with that actual percentage, I guess.  It's also tough to read between the lines to sort out the personalities of posters.  One guy here has a ten minute ramble on YouTube; it turns out he was offered a full refund and turned it down because he wants a working machine instead...while that may seem reasonable to him, it's a reflection of a certain personality type that lends itself to making it difficult to figure out how big a problem really is.  If I really thought something was a piece of junk and someone offered me my money back, I'd get my money back...

Anyway, mine's going back at the first sign it will be problematic, and in any case I'll stay tuned here to see how things go for everyone else.

Message Edited by jimmyt on 11-04-2009 05:48 AM

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I agree. I don't believe that HP wouldn't want to deny that a problem exists for as long as it could or at least until it could determine the common denominator of the failing units and successfully replicate the failure. But that is a long way from covering up a failure rate of 1/3 of the units of a particular model. And an even longer way from producing a second model with the very same components without addressing the issue.

Any customer who has had a failing unit deserves straight answers and satisfaction from HP. But refusing a full refund in one case or demanding HP provide a product they don't offer in another is expecting more than is owed.

I know people have tried to figure out what has changed between the e9180 and the e9280 models. So far, the only thing I've read here and can confirm on my own is that the e9280 has an updated BIOS. While some users have claimed this BIOS is "crippled," there is no evidence of that ever offered and certainly no evidence on my machine. It would be nice if HP put out a statement on this question but even if they did there are certainly some folks that wouldn't believe whatever they said.

[hpsad]

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JimCapeCoral wrote:
hpsad:  Wow, that's pretty heavy stuff.  Not questioning your statements, but would you cite the sources of your information, i.e.,(1) mobo (Pegatron) point blank admitted etc., (2) the e9280 and e9290 use the same mobo ...etc., (3) estimates 2 out of 3 mobos have the freezing problem.  As I said that's pretty heavy stuff.  If the sources prove reliable that's enough for me (goodbye to the e9280).

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Read through the 250+ pages of complaints in the e9150t thread.  Several of us have received email from Ronnie Xue with Pegatron where he stated very clearly that the IPMTB-TK motherboard is the cause of the freezing problem and it cannot be fixed.  Proof that the e9280 and e9290 have the same motherboard as the e9150 and e9180 can easily be found on the HP site, just look at the specs, it clearly states the motherboard is a Pegatron IPMTB-TK.  These are all verifiable facts.

[jimmyt]

If my machine acts up, it's going right back.  I have no loyalty whatsoever to HP.

But it is beyond credulity that a company which makes computers would continue to make and ship computers which use a motherboard which the motherboard manufacturer told them was defective and unfixable, and it's beyond credulity that the motherboard manufacturer would admit to their buyer that the board was defective and unusable and yet continue to sell it.  Both companies have everything at stake in promoting customer loyalty and making a profit on currently sold machines.  You cannot make a profit selling a machine that is going to get returned.

I do not get the reasoning on this board by some of the posters.  I am all on board with your frustration and I am probably meaner than any of you if I think I've been screwed over.  I may also have a few more resources to bring to bear.  Nevertheless I simply have trouble believing any company would think it's a good business model to continue to ship some huge percent of machines known to be defective.  Aside from the negative PR, they would lose money.  It's as simple as that.  I can't make money selling defective machines and neither can HP.

I also assume that many of the dissatisfied HP owners are experts as well.  And if none of them have traced a problem to a specific point of failure, it's hard for me to believe there is some isolated fatal flaw which everyone is too dumb to figure out.  I wonder if what happens instead that a given machine gets a bad reputation and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that that machine is going to fail because it gets a reputation which then promotes a common reporting which does not occur for machines without that reputation...

So...I remain skeptical--not that some machines are garbage because I do believe that--but that the failure rate is significant.  And I will post immediately if my particular e9290f craps out or gives me a suspicion it is going to crap out.  If we have real numbers or real data, by all means lets get it out there.  I find it hard to believe HP pays their support techs so highly that not a single one has gone public to squeal about the company's malfeasance.  If one has, let's link to it.  These days there is real money to be made in being an insider who rats out bad management.

Message Edited by jimmyt on 11-04-2009 04:25 PM

[hpsad]

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gardengal5 wrote:

>... why HP continues to use this motherboard after being told about the unfixable flaw!!!

Granted, they ought to step back and re-engineer, but do we understand why the 9280's with the same motherboard are mostly not failing like the 91xx's are. 

Do we really understand what the difference is between 91xx and 92xx?   My guess is some workaround/hack/avoidance to co-exist in peace with thefaulty mobo., but I don't think we know for sure why the 9280s are okay (mostly) with the same mobo.  

Maybe it is a particular i7 flavor.  Many are offerred.   we need a spreadsheet of the specs of the bad 91xx's

For me, I am i7-920.  no definitive freeze/bsod, but suspicious in general of stability, esp USB related.

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According to Ronnie Xue from Pegatron, they are stepping up their testing of each motherboard before shipping it to HP, however as we've already seen some bad ones are still slipping through when even some of the e9280 computers are also freezing.  The intelligent solution would have been for HP to cease the use of the IPMTB-TK since Pegatron said they can't fix the problem and the best they can do is test the motherboards before shipping them to HP.  This doesn't guarantee that those that pass the test won't suffer the same freezing flaw 6 months from now, we've already seen some customers reporting the freezing with the e9280 model.  This now the 4th series of Pavilion Elite (m9600, m9700, e9100 and e9200) using the IPMTB-TK motherboard and all 4 series have had the same problem with the motherboard.  Seriously, how stupid can HP be!!!

Message Edited by hpsad on 11-04-2009 04:30 PM

[dennistermulo]

I appreciate the comments, both pros and cons, on the matter.  I am also looking for an i7 based desktop to replace my desktop replacement laptop gone bust.  Any thoughts on the e9270f?  It's only an i7 860 though, max 16gb ram, but non Pegatron mobo (although only P55), but BD reader but so-so vid card ati hd 4650 with I think 350psw.  Any owners out there, and any similar hang ups?  Or would this be a viable compromise for wanting i7 but none of the Truckee crap?  My purposes are for video editing with my hd cam and some here and there gaming.

[GaryJ51]

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dennistermulo wrote:
I appreciate the comments, both pros and cons, on the matter.  I am also looking for an i7 based desktop to replace my desktop replacement laptop gone bust.  Any thoughts on the e9270f?  It's only an i7 860 though, max 16gb ram, but non Pegatron mobo (although only P55), but BD reader but so-so vid card ati hd 4650 with I think 350psw.  Any owners out there, and any similar hang ups?  Or would this be a viable compromise for wanting i7 but none of the Truckee crap?  My purposes are for video editing with my hd cam and some here and there gaming.

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The P55 systems should be a better bet than the i7 series.  The P55 boards are made by MSI.  They have a good reputation.  I hope it doesn't get tarnished by their association with HP.

I guess you seriously need to consider if you want to buy from a vendor that continues to deny a major flaw in their flagship systems.  Anyone considering a Core i7 system should realize that if HP never admits they've had a production problem with these systems, how would anyone ever know when it's fixed??  Assuming they ever fix it, which is looking doubtful.  I've had 4 in a row now that have the same issue - lock ups & BSoD.

The only apparent difference between the 91XX and the 92XX series is Windows 7.  many of us have already installed Win 7 on our defective systems.  It didn't fix the problem.

I've seen a link on the 9150 forum to an e9180f refurb for less than $800.  You'd be insanely lucky to get one that didn't freeze, but you could replace the mobo for about $200 and still have a nice system for about $1000.  With a third party mobo you would have access to an unlocked BIOS and would be able to some overclocking, which is pretty easy to do with a Core i7.  I'm even considering getting a refund on my current defect and buying the refurb and a new motherboard.  I'd actually save about $200 and have a better computer.

$1200+ is a lot of money to spend on a lottery ticket for a computer that doesn't have a defective motherboard.  Unfortunately, some of us didn't have this information when we bought ours.  3 months and 4 systems later, I'm still trying to get what I paid for - a new computer free of defects.

Message Edited by GaryJ51 on 11-05-2009 03:53 AM

[gardengal5]

>It's only an i7 860 though, max 16gb ram,

that's what my new Dell XPS8000 has. When deciding about it,  I looked around a bit and concluded the 860 is going to be totally fine

for my purposes.   920 was probably overkill.   >920 I didn't even consider.   underlying diff is dual-channel vs. tri-channel.   Oh well.

I only wanted the 920 and the max 24gb to futureproof as much as possible within the $1200 budget.    my current pc went 9 years

and I never upgraded memory (1/2 gb as I type) , so probably max 16gb ram will be fine for me.

The good thing about the memory and the hp e9820t was there were unused slots for more economical memory upgrade. 

THe existing sticks could be retained.  I think the XPS8000 only has 4 DIMMS, so the upgrade means ditching what you've got for

4gb sticks. (that's my assumption I haven't really poked around to be sure about that, but I decided I can live with it)