To virtualize or not...HP says Not!

[strezztechnoid]

Having recently purchased a Pavilion Elite (E9160F) from a local retailer, I have spent an inordinate amount of time trying to get the most out of the fantastic hardware. The hardware components are top notch:

- Intel Q9300 Duo Core Quad
- Intel VT-X (Virtualization Technology) Support
- 6Mb of L2 cache (would have preferred 12Mb)
- 8Gb of DDR3 memory (make it twice that)
- DVD and Blueray Drives
- 1Tb SATA drive (in IDE mode UDMA5, 7200 RPM)

The purchase of the system was made on the basis that this platform could prove quite useful as a multi-mode workstation. My plan, install a hypervisor and serveral guest OS instances to support various projects and application contexts...

The Problems:

-- Both the Recovery Partition and the Recovery Media Set allocate the entire drive to one partition. This has proven

problematic when trying to install the licensed copy of Vista as a guest on top of several hypervisors (Xen and Hyper-V).

-- The installation fails on a virtual disk as the install doesn't recognize the HP hardware layer.

-- The OS relies on ECD (BIOS data) to parameterize partition/volume/boot options (replacing the old boot.ini) which may or may not be recognized by other boot or OS boot management components. As the ECD data is dereferenced when moving the resized partition, successfully imaging of the new partition is problematic.

-- The Recovery Partition does not cleanly allow for linear/ordered partition tables. It can be moved but the BIOS relies on the specification parition ID, a boot loader can be used to strap the Recovery Partition.

-- Re-ordering the OS installation does not remedy the problem(s)...

-- Installing the OS from the Recovery Media Set first, resizing the partition, and re-allocating space for other OS distribution(s) fails as the licensed copy of the OS is now a "dual boot" and not a virtualized system.

-- Is HP suggesting that I only use Virtual PC?

My hope is that the HP/Windows 7 release will not replicate the issues I've had with the HP "Packaged" Windows OS distribution. Tell me I'm wrong.

Why sell a machine with virtual machine support if you cannot install the purchased OS?

Can HP fix this?

[mike_swan]

The issue seems to lie with the fact that you are using recovery disks?

These disks tend to re-install a recovery partition as and when they see fit.

The best option would be to get some actual installation media and the drivers for the hardware, etc and then install it.

The other option would be to use a partition manager, which various live CD's of Linux have on them which will allow you to partition the Hard Disk Space.

[strezztechnoid]

Mike,

This issue is not between me and you, Mike. That said, I did get kind of a wee bit of condescension in your response--it seemed to be the tone of your reply-- To let you know I have built Live CD's (when there weren't any) for such esoteric OS's as QNX Neutrino, LynxOS, Yellow Dog and U-Boot (firmware bootable OS--not booting from firmware) I have some serious bona-fidas in this area. I suggest you "re-read" the original post. It may have been "my bad" that I didn't clearly express what was at issue.

By the way, which boot loader should I use? Boot Commander, LILO, GRUB, U-BOOT...PXE Boot.

.

Statements of Fact:

1. HP sold me a system that supports virtualization with one licensed (merchantable) copy

of the OS. (Unless you plan on using a virtual machine management layer)

2. The media I received from HP clearly won't install on a virtualized system.

3. HP failed to disclose that the Restore Partition or Recovery Set would not be usable to

recovery anything but the pre-configured HP installation

(So if I purchase a system and change the disk layout I'm screwed? when's the last time a

car dealership said you couldn't use different tires or change the color of the paint--if

you did the car would fail to start?)

Questions and Remedies

- Will I have to purchase, at a minimum, a replacement media set (i.e. a Retail or OEM

Distribution of Microsoft Windows Vista)?
 

- Am I going to have the same problem when I receive my Windows 7 update that HP will be

sending--I have already ordered that?

Background Information 

Having cut my teeth on VM (IBM's virtual OS, I first started using that in 1988 when it came out on the IBM microchannel systems (PS/2) and later on S-390's). The  HP E9160F system I purchased two weeks ago is/was running SuSE Xen and W2K8-R2 Hyper-V with multiple versions of Windows 7, RedHat and SuSE guests...of which I have media and licenses for...I don't seem to have a usable, licensed version of Vista though...

Seems the restore installation decided that it needed the whole terrabyte drive to run Vista from...hey, where did my partitions go. So this, in my case, is an unusable OS distribution that HP shipped with the system I purchased. How does HP propose to remedy this.

I also have an issue with any OS (Hypervisor or not) believing that it is the sole owner of the boot area (with it is the MBR, or BCD) and it is up to the discretion of the boot loader to make these decisions. What next, only approved OS can be installed on these platforms?

This goes well beyond the "Warranty" issue that came up when a little while back...

http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/114250

[Shimo]

Ok my suggestion, and this is what I did when my HDD cooked it in my laptop.. Simply download the retail vista disk and use your real activation code.. No laws broken and you save a hundred bucks... But from what I understand is that you most likely will have to wipe the whole disk and fresh install each OS onto ready made partitions from the get go. You'll lose the recovery ability from the push of a button.. But judgeing from your skill level I doubt that would scare you at all. Also acronis make a great alternative recover solution in case you still want to recover a working system state. Good luck and best of wishes to you and your multibooting ways .