HP Support Forums
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06-11-2009 07:47 AM
I agree with both of you. However, HP legally (as of this moment) has no obligation to FIX the problem. You and I know there is a big difference between the moral thing to do and the legal thing to do. HP is choosing the legal thing to do because it's going to cost them millions to do the moral thing. Now look, you can blame them all you want (and I do). However, if you want your laptop fixed, you'll need to compramise. I can understand if you're not willing to do this, but in the meantime you won't get anything fixed. It may be months (if ever) before NVDIA or HP admits to using substandard parts in their laptops.
I mean lets face it. You advertise a Gaming Laptop and there are people that will play games on it till it catches on fire. There just isn't enough cooling in the laptop and the glue that holds the GPU to the graphics card is substandard. It's impossible to make a laptop that will hold up under those conditions forever. Instead they chose to make a laptop that would hold up till after the warranty expired. I'm sure lab tests were conducted that prove this.
Bottom line. HP sold a substandard laptop to you that was not equipped for your gaming. They new it or found out rather quickly. They have NO legal obligation to fix the problem. So you have to compramise (politely)..
You and I wish NVIDIA and HP will do the right thing... but it isn't going to happen. File a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission because HP has violated the Sales of Good Faith Act. Other than that, suck up your pride and reach a compramise with HP.
My only regret is when I do send this computer in, they're going to take the motherboard and defective graphics card and I will no longer have a case with the FTC.
Nvidia put aside 196 million to fix the issues, all HP has to do is say that need $$ this amount to fix this many laptops, then they get to choose which ones get fixed and then they get to keep the rest, good going on thier part, no way will they get any more of my money.
Just my .00 cents, because as I said, no more of my money.
06-11-2009 10:30 AM
06-11-2009 10:34 AM
You fit right in to this progressive society by accepting an inadequate solution because of an invalid thought that HP "has no obligation to fix an out of warranty" product. Manufacturers are successfully sued every day for products that fail decades after manufacture. Products that had no warranty in the first place. Even products that have changed hands several times since the original owner.
But, that isn't even the case here. HP, and Nvidia, have admitted that this particular chip set is defective. They have further validated that admission by repairing, free of charge, OUT OF WARRANTYunits that have failed whose only common failure point is the Nvidia 8600M GT chipset. Further validation of the defectiveness of that part is that it has failed universally and equally catastrophically in all brands of computers. Both Dell and Apple are repairing out of warranty computers that fail these Nvidia parts.
What compounds this problem is that HP was already having significant problems with previous model numbers in which they had installed this Nvidia chip set, but they continued to manufacture new products installing these known defective parts.They intentionally built computers with KNOWN DEFECTIVE PARTS. That puts it in a different category than just "out of warranty" and puts HP in a legal bind.
As for the FTC, whether you have the defective computer in your hands of not, if they follow up with you, you can provide all the supporting literature, much of it referenced in this HP Support Forum, showing that the problem is real and WELL documented. That should be adequate for initiation of investigation.
06-11-2009 10:46 AM
06-11-2009 11:30 AM
First, it isn't a "graphics card." It is a set of chips mounted directly, via surface contact soldering, on the motherboard. The contact solder pad layout is configured to make proper electrical contact with only that 8600M GT chip set. No other chip can be substituted. It isn't like a desktop computer motherboard with a slot into which you may install different graphics cards. Only one motherboard fits a particular case and only one chip set fits that motherboard. There is great likelihood that the "repair" will not last and then you will be out not only the original cost of the computer, but the additional cost of the repair. Are they going to offer you an additional one year warranty?
We are likely all in the same boat in that the HP "fix" uses the same original parts, so a duplicate failure is down the road. At least an extended/enhanced warrant repair doesn't take additional money out of our pockets. BTW, if you are dependent on this computer, if I were you, I would be lining up a replacement for when the repaired unit fails...and I would pick a brand that has a reputation for real customer service support. I hear that Alienware is good.
06-11-2009 03:08 PM
Nyteshade, let me start by saying that I am not an HP fanboy, nor am I blinded by product loyalty. However, you are making a few assumptions that I don't think you really have the knowledge to make. The first one is that they are replacing the faulty chipset with the same one, or with another faulty one. What are you basing this assumption on? I am one of the lucky ones who had my motherboard replaced at no charge. I have tried to find out what the original motherboard was for the dv9315ca, and have asked on this board, with no success. I can check that against the board they replaced it with and determing once and for all if they are putting the same chips in as you assume. So if someone knows where I can get that info let me know.
Second, you state that HP was aware of the issue "from jump." Again, what information is this based on. Do we really know when HP became aware a)that there was a problem and b)the scope of the problem. The fact is, we don't.
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it. The anger at HP is somewhat misdirected. Nvidia made the GPU's. It is their fault. HP has been placed in the unfortunate position of having to clean up Nvidia's mess. They may not be doing that to most people's satisfaction, but it is not a problem of their creation in the first place. Unless you have definative proof that HP was fully aware that the GPU's were faulty and continued to use them in their laptops. Nvidia has not been exactly forthcoming with information about their part in this. I realize that this is not an Nvidia forum, but if we are going to point the finger, perhaps we should be pointing two fingers.
Of course, my opinion is colored by the fact that my laptop was repaired. If I was sitting with a brick I would probably be hopping mad at HP too. Even if Nvidia deserves it more.