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09-07-2011 07:16 AM
Well, well, well, so Normal Operating temperature is 35C. But as soon as my dv6 starts up, it goes upto 45C all by itself. What is this? I payed $1000+ for this laptop and now they want me to pay EVEN MORE JUST TO COOL MY PC DOWN? WHAT INT HE WORLD IS THIS? Is this the future of laptops? Is this why Pavilion's are rare? Is this why my friends only like HP Notebooks for the look and not the temperature? I paid all that money just for THIS?
This is NOT CUSTOMER SUPPORT! THIS IS INSOLENCE!
I am hating this! I liek to keep laptops on my lap - now I keep them on a desk with a piece of wood to make the ground-clearence higher...
I repeat - I DO NOT LIKE THIS!
09-07-2011 09:12 AM
@Kiyamudeen - Your dv6 is perfectly fine. 45ºC is a very normal temperature for a notebook. We're discussing temperatures double of that (around 90ºC).
@Envy17_3D_User - Comparing with desktop temperatures doesn't make sense... you should at least try to compare with notebooks with similar specs.
My Envy idle temp is around 65-69ºC and when gaming it would reach 85-95ºC. Seeing this I decided to buy a Zalman NC3000U cooler and since then it I've never seen temperatures higher than 80-82ºC. Played through portal 2 (around 7 hours) in the same day and the highest temperature was 82ºC. Notice that macbook pro also has similar temperatures.
About the freezes / crashes, my system seems pretty stable now since I turned off the hardware acceleration on flash which solve the only crashes I had.
Of course this is not a normal situation having to buy a cooler to not have to worry about the temperatures. Now I understand the promotion and the low price I paid for this Envy compared to similar machines with the same specs.
09-07-2011 04:10 PM
I admitted in my comparison that comparing desktop cooling to laptop cooling was unfair however there is no argument that basically HP did not do a good job cooling this laptop. HP is using a single fan to cool both the graphics chip and the cpu chip with a single heatpipe all on the top left side of the machine for the Envy 17. Also, there are not enough vents for airflow to come in and out of the area.
In contrast, the Envy 15 has a much better cooling design. They put the cpu on one side of the mainboard and the gpu on the other. There are 3 fans and separate heatsinks/heatpipes on that machine and therefore it runs very cool and efficiently. The compromise was not to have an optical drive in order to have the space.
Now the problem with the Envy 17 is they were trying to pack too much in too little of a space. To give you the ability to have 2 hard disks, it ate a lot of space in the middle of the machine not to mention the optical drive. I would have much rather given up the two drive bays for one if they would have spread things out better like the Envy 15.
I heard now that on the newer models with the 2nd generation Sandy's, they not only have cooler chips but they have redesigned the case of the Envy in order to allow better airflow in addition to other changes.
While it is true that the MacBook Pro also suffers from overheating issues, I am disappointed that companies like Apple and HP did not take the time to properly cool these machines (even if the compromise is that they are not as slim and are heavier with more heasinks/fans) before releasing them to the public.
I think HP and Apple both need to recall their machines and admit fault. We should not have to buy cooling pads in order to prevent shutdowns. We should be able to use these machines on our laps or they should not be called "laptops".
Why are we allowing these companies to get away with allowing the users to pay for their design mistakes?
Shouldn't companies like HP and Apple be held accountable???
That's basically the issue here. If a car company releases a bum car part, they recall it for safety reasons. HP and Apple need to do the same with these computers because they are safety hazards when people can actually get burned or a fire can start. Not to mention they are selling you expensive machines that are bound to fail much sooner than a correctly designed machine. This is not fair to the consumer.
Both of these companies need to be slapped with fines and class actions and lots of small claims suits. We should all sue HP and Apple for our money back and not make excuses for them.
09-07-2011 04:43 PM
@Envy17-3D-User - That design is nothing new and has been applied to many notebooks (not only HP ones), my old HP Compaq NX9420 also has the same design has this one: one heat sink and one fan but it was a dual core with a cooler cpu and gpu. But I agree with you, these machines shouldn't have passed the testing phase. But all users have 15 days to try a product and if they're not satisfied with it you can return it (at least in most countries, this can be done).
The thing is the only ones who know about this are users like us that have a little bit more knowledge and know how to get CPU/GPU temp readings. Most users don't know how to do this.
The first thing I do when I buy a machine is to install RealTemp and GPU-Z to check the temperatures and do a stress test to both GPU and CPU to see how the machine behaves. I noticed right away the high temperatures and searched the net about this. At the time (christmas 2010) it was common for i7 in laptops to reach high temperatures like 90ºC so I thought this was acceptable but after a while I realized that this is not good since it actually burns the left hand if we touch certain spots.
While the machine runs ok, these high temps will make the thermo gels degrade faster and thus the processors will also degrade faster.
Has anyone tried to apply a special thermo gel like artic silver to see if it helps with this problem? I think that I'll try to apply it later this year after 1 year of use.
09-07-2011 07:22 PM - edited 09-07-2011 08:01 PM
I'm surprised the i7's are running so hot. I mistakenly thought these were 32nm parts but they are 45nm's so I guess I'm not surprised. I'm assuming the 2nd gen's are 32nm and running cooler.
If they are running this hot and manufacturer's cannot cool them properly, then they should not have been offered for laptop use.
Intel is also at fault for releasing a mobile chip that runs too hot and requires a very difficult cooling solution.
21 days or whatever HP gives you is fine for products that are designed properly however I feel this product is "defective" in its design and therefore should not apply to the 21 day return policy.
I honestly didn't realize that the blue screens, freezes, and degraded performance had to do with overheating issues all this time. I didn't expect to have to check temps on an expensive laptop and I trusted that HP designed it properly as I'm sure everyone who purchased it did. After all, the HP brand name is supposed to stand for quality and good customer service no?
If HP management is reading this, you need to take care of your clients first and foremost. Business 101 is that you don't screw over your clients like this and expect them to respect you and do business with you again.
It just goes to show that HP will do anything including letting you send your machine to their service facility as many as 6 times to avoid having to replace these machines and/or even just plain give you store credit to buy different laptops that don't have these issues. They know the solution and it will hurt their bottom line.
I'm not surprised HP wants to get out of the PC business. "TOTAL CARE" is a pathetic joke at HP. More like "keep people occupied with b.s. until they give up" and let's minimize losses and continue to lie about our mistakes for releasing these machines that are running way too hot.
Arctic Silver is not going to help much. Maybe 1 or 2 degress max but not much. Also, if you go that route, you invalidate your 2 year warranty which isn't worth it since this machine will be prone to failure in the future if you keep running it at 80C and above regularly.
09-08-2011 02:56 AM
About avoiding warranty, I don't think that it is the case. I once had to send my NX9420 to repair and asked them if I could take the hard drive out and they said it was ok, so their quite open when it comes to warranty issues.
09-08-2011 12:18 PM
as far as basic components such as hard drives ram and optical drives a end user should always be allowed to swap such basic components. its when it comes to LCD replacement CPU, fans heat sinks anything that can compromise the motherboard and cables. besides having those warranty void stickers are sometimes placed in the stupidest of places. i had one that was over the ram door so u couldn't change out the ram. but over time the sticker just got peeled away just over normal use and my warranty was not valid after that.
09-08-2011 12:24 PM
@envy 3d HP doesnt really read these forums. it sucks its just for peers to help eachother. i sent a useless email to some CEO email of customer relations demanding for a refund for their lack of support of my product. they simply called me back and told me that i can only get a resolution from my case manager. who told me that since my one year after i bought the laptop is up i am out of manufacture warranty and in my extended warranty and that i can no longer replace/ refund my laptop. i have argued that i have had this problem well before my one year was up. and u guys have been stalling till my one year was up. So anyone got any suggestions on what i shud do next? laptops currently in their repair center atm for 6th time now. any one want to take BETS? on if its gets fixed this time?
09-08-2011 01:54 PM
Just sell it, cut your loses and buy G74, guys why you even think about it.
I got this laptop refurbished from Italy, G74 was not available, g73 was but was much more expensive.
I got a good deal I think. Today i play game, me temp went to 94 degrees.
We have to sell these machines soon or they will just fall apart. It will be nice if HP would replace them with new ones with sandy bridge.
people in america are lucky, you had very cheap g73 asus in best buy for 1200 USD, why even bother buying this crap?
In europe g73 costs around 2000 us and up.
SHAME ON YOU HP FOR BEING SUCH A SCAMMERS; THEY KNEW THAT MANY
09-08-2011 05:36 PM - last edited on 09-08-2011 07:11 PM by MrMatthew
Oh well you know what they say "if it is too good to be true, it usually is" and that's how I feel about this HP Envy 17 laptop purchase and it is pretty much how I feel about HP as a whole now.
The specs and design looked so good on paper and the price seemed like such a good deal but ultimately we all got screwed. I incorrectly trusted in the HP brand. Unfornately people who purchased the MacBook Pro also got screwed with overheating issues and that's hard to believe with Apple as well.
I used to do consulting and computer integration work and I would NEVER screw over a client like this if I integrated a desktop system together incorrectly and it was overheating and not performing to spec (what the customer agreed to and paid for). Even if that means I take a loss on the sale because of my mistake. I always went out of my way for my clients and for that reason, I always kept my clients happy and they constantly referred me without even having to ask and were quite loyal to me. I treated my clients the same way I would treat my friends and family.
Customer service makes or breaks a business. It is more important than the short term bottom line. If you don't keep the relationship with your clients strong, you lose them and you lose all of their referrals and repeat business which costs you a lot more long term and can even jeopardize your entire business plan and image.
This is just plain wrong and it is too bad HP doesn't read these forums and practice TQM (Total Quality Management). That would be true "Total Care" for the entire company and the entire customer base.
Again, I'm not surprised, that HP has decided to leave the PC business. I could run HP better myself. First I would immediately fire the engineer(s) and/or people responsible for the atrocious cooling design on this laptop and for letting it go to production and then I would take care of all those clients who got these bum machines and are unhappy, let them return them and at least give them a store credit to get a different laptop. The parts can then be recycled and/or reused and resold on the secondary market with disclaimers. Ultimately having people send their laptops in 6 times is not efficient for the client or HP and by that time could have paid for this replacement. (12 Fedex overnight shipping costs + at least 6+ hours of tech labor time + parts = ???)
Doesn't make any sense to me but I guess they figure most people will give up after 1 or 2 service attempts and after wasting tons of time on the phone or online chatting to customer service people who don't know squat. If you finally do get lucky enough to get escalated to a case manager, they probably also give you hell before they do anything for you. This is all a game. Even the techs who know exactly what is going on are covering for HP but I don't blame them because they want to keep their jobs. Must be an ethical dilemma for them having to lie to customers.
Had HP disclosed the issues with this machine to potential buyers in advance and required or provided a suitable external cooling solution with the machine since the internal cooling solution is not adequate with these 45nm 1st gen i7's as well as AMD GPU chips, then this discussion would not be happening but honestly they have been dishonest to customers and are continuing the trend.