HP EliteBook Folio G1: Precision Touchpad and ALPs GlidePoint touchpad drivers have a response delay

[Kujobro]

This is a Microsoft win 10 issue with PTP not specific to HP, Alps or Synaptics .  A Microsoft hotfix will likely be coming to fix it.

[TheDriverDude]

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- it is untrue that the precaution you described is necessary in any way: Now that I have uninstalled the driver, I can use both the physical clickpad buttons and the two-finger-rightclick feature and at the same time navigate small distances, all of these with no issues whatsoever. 

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You must have very steady fingers! Most people can’t hold their finger still even without pressing the clickpad. The delay was probably introduced either because users complained about not being able to press the clickpad without accidentally dragging the object under the cursor, or based on the usability studies where the observers could see the trouble some people had with this feature.

[TheDriverDude]

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@NM231 wrote:

- for some reason with uninstalled drivers, sometimes two finger scrolling worked, and sometimes not. 

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When the ALPS driver is uninstalled, the two-finger scroll is equivalent to rolling a mouse wheel. Depending on the foreground application or the window under the cursor, the mouse wheel may not produce scrolling. If you connect a standard USB wheel mouse, you could check if the action is identical between the touchpad and the USB mouse.

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@NM231 wrote:

- however, there still is lag when doing two finger scroll.

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Those registry values do not affect the delay for two-finger scroll. The delay for two-finger scroll means that the driver has trouble determining what gesture the user is trying to perform. Before starting to scroll, the driver needs to rule out other possibilities, such as zoom or rotate, or even a three-finger swipe. It’s hard to put three fingers down at the exact same time. If the first two fingers start moving before the third finger touches down when you are trying to do a three-finger swipe, you will have a false scroll unless there is a delay.

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@NM231 wrote:

- I found PTP (precision touch pad) entries within the Alps touchpad registry entry (APHF): 

E.g. PTPDeadZone-Enable.

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The Alps driver can make the PTP behavior worse (e.g., introduce its own dead zone), but it cannot make the PTP behavior better than what the OS offers.

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NM231 wrote: 

- BTW, there are lots of settings in APHF. I wonder if any of these affects general sensitiviy. 

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What do you mean by general sensitivity? If you are talking about the sensor’s sensitivity to the size of the contact, then there is no registry value that would adjust that.

[NM231]

Thanks.

- I never actually click the clickpad. There is no reason to use this for most users. Tap-to-click and double-tap to right-click works perfectly. Hence the problem of jumping cursor when clicking is not relevant here and the forced delay only causes huge precision problems. Also, even when hardware-clicking, the cursor does indeed jump a bit when I disable the dead zone in GlidePoint. I know the problem from a ThinkPad Edge where the cursor jumps like mad when clicking, The EliteBook is better in this regard, but still. So this might indeed be the reason for the dead zones. But the point is, the user can enable both "tab to left-click" and "two-finger-tab to right-click". Why would the deadzones persist once the user has effectively told the system that he does no longer need the hardware clicks. The only situation were the hardware clicks are still needed would be the rare drag-with-rightclick which can be easily substituted by alternative actions. I.e. most users would rather have precision that that. 

So there is no reason not to make the deadzones -- and also the thresholds for multi-finger-actions -- customizable for PTP. At least in the registry. 

- It's a fact that this touchpad is great in terms of hardware, and that the software just needs some small tweaks/some working reg options by MS (for the one finger deadzone/delay, and for the two finger delay)

(And with general sensivity I mean the sensivity to pressure which can usually be adjusted in many touch pad driver config windows. That's not a pressing issue (no pun intended), but personally I'd like to set it all the way to maximum sensitivity. I have never had a problem by doing so. Only advantages.) 

The only problem is that we are discussion here whether or not we should provide users with OPTIONS to fix massive precision and responsiveness problems in PTP for those that do not need extra-conservative deadzones/... OF COURSE there should be OPTIONS. What a question. HP needs to tell microsoft to provide those. Just google the lenghty threads of users complaining about the same problem in the DELL XPS. This is costing HP money if they don't tell MS to provide these options. People DO notice the lag during the return window and they will send back the computer to the shop where they bought it. 

[TheDriverDude]

Dear NM230/NM231:

I don’t know if it’s appropriate to turn a technical discussion into a philosophical one, but I would like to reply to some of the issues you have raised.

I agree that it is a good idea to let the user adjust the dead zone, although too many controls may clutter the control panel and confuse most users.

However, if you have to choose between the cursor stability when pressing the clickpad and the initial cursor movement responsiveness, I would opt for the cursor stability. It will be especially important in graphic applications where you don’t want the brush to start drawing before you start moving your finger.

I intentionally use the term initial cursor movement responsiveness instead of precision positioning. The dead zone is only present when you start cursor movement. When you are trying to position the cursor precisely on a target, I don’t see any problems with cursor control. It is the end of the movement, not the beginning, that is important for precise positioning. When you need to position the cursor on a target, you usually start far away from the target. So when you start your movement, it’s no big deal if there is a delay. When you come close to the target, that’s where you need to have precise control over the cursor, which again has nothing to do with responsiveness. In fact, the cursor should not be too responsive, or you will have trouble positioning it on the right pixel.

Regarding touch sensitivity adjustment, why do you need it? What is the problem that you are experiencing with the current sensitivity setting? Do you have to press too hard to move the cursor? Are you trying to control the cursor with your fingernail? Do you wear gloves while using the computer? The problem with setting touch sensitivity high is that the touchpad may start tracking your finger when it is not touching. Then you will have problems positioning the cursor because you cannot lift it up exactly vertically, and the cursor will move a little when you lift up your finger at a slight angle. I wouldn’t recommend adjusting sensitivity unless you cannot use the touchpad otherwise.

[NM231]

FWIW, I have sent back the computer after testing it (in particular the touchpad) for over 10 hours. It's simply unacceptable. Why do we even have to talk about this. The touchpad on my 2yo Windows laptop is precise with no delay, answas the MacBook's I tested last week in the store. 

No, I do not necessarily need sensitivity adjustment. But I prefer a high sensitivy setting and I dislike any attempt of reducing the configurability of a system. Advanced users should at least be able to resort to the registry for this purpose.

Now, as to your philosophical main point. You see, why walk forward when you also could walk backward AND into the opposite direction. --- You see, I can send you a video of me trying to draw a line of dots that are positioned above each other, each about 3mm from each other, in MS Paint. On my old Win laptop, I can do that about 5 times faster, and elegantly. On the HP/"precision" touch pad, it looks as if I were drunk, and takes ages and is imprecise. Also, a movement typically accelerates. That's why small, precise movement are done slower than long movements across the screen. A dead zone leads to the cursor suddenly starting to move at a point where (a) the user cannot exactly expect it, and (b) at a higher speed. These are some of the causes for the imprecision. And "last but not least", it is ridiculous that this is advertised as "precision" touchpad. this is the most imprecise touchpad I have ever had in my house since I bought my first touchpad laptop back in 1999. 

[ccos]

I find the trackpad simply unusable with regard to mouse clicks.   I cannot keep the pointer positioned during the click as it moves wildly with the pressure of pushing the trackpad.    It is irriatating and useless.   I have searched for any configuration settings that might customize the behavior for me without success.  I typically resort to using an external mouse and disabling the trackpad, however, there are many occasions where I would really like to use the built in tool.    I am hopeful an update will be released that applies a dead zone to the button push areas.