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08-19-2009 06:17 AM
Thanks Sticky, that's very useful info. I've been trying to track down decent contact details for a while now as I'm having no joy with the typical customer support people.
I think I'll send them a very carefully worded email and hope for a positive response. If not I'll follow it up with a phonecall.
08-19-2009 07:45 AM
No Problem Storm.
In return all I ask is that you try to get that phone number and/or the link I sent to as many people as you can. The forwarded link really should be helpfull to UK customers, as was the contact number above (in my case, at least).
08-19-2009 11:30 AM
08-19-2009 12:32 PM
If it was just a chipset why wont the repaired machines hold up?
It is a Thermal issue that is why we hate HP if it was Nividia there would be machines from many other manufactures as well.
Although there is others the AMD's run a little hotter and thats why they are the most common failures.
You will never get a real fix from HP without a replaced machine they will never go out of the box to fix there thermal issues on these machines.
That being said neither will most laptop repair shops.
This is just another case of the customer only having one option to truely fix there product and that is to take the risk modify the thermal issue to run the machine at much cooler temps to keep the chip set from solder failure.
When these machines have a thermal pad and expand and contract at hot temps the board cant take the stress and heat combination and results in intermittent failure.
I have gave up on Hp and will go for the fix on my own for now i type on a toshiba intel that holds at 39 C and is sure to outlast because of that alone.
08-20-2009 11:55 AM - last edited on 08-20-2009 01:09 PM by WendyM
It is indeed a thermal issue. The Nvidia GPU chipset is incapeable of surviving through x number of heat cycles. Over many cycles the solder bumps get stressed and fail.
Repeat failures are seen because, inexplicabley HP choose to replace like for like. I say inexplicabley, but this has obviously been set as policy. They are fobbing us guys off with shoddy components giving the bare minimum of warrenty protection in the hope that we will get bored, go away and ultimately save them money. HP have been screwed over by Nvidia, but that isn't mine/our problem.
One further point... My understanding is that the GPU chipset is built into the motherboard. This board I understand is designed and built in partnership with Nvidia. <text deleted> I guess the board design process is another reason why HP continue to replace like for like - each mobo is designed uniquely for each model of laptop.
There are indeed other manufacturers out there who are having the problems, have a look on CNET, The Inquirer those sorts of sites and search for articles relating to "Nvidia Defect" there is a lot of information out there! HP hope you won't look, hope you'll get tired of jumping through their pathetic hoops so that they don't have to give you a free replacement laptop at their great expense. Keep fighting HP, Nvidia and your retailer. You can and should get refunds replacements and at the very least free repairs with worthwhile warrenties.
08-20-2009 12:04 PM
08-21-2009 04:54 AM
Look I really can't sit and read through 65 pages to see if this has already been covered or not, so...
Have any of you actually taken your notebooks apart to inspect what you have? My DV2225NR completely failed this week due to the in-adequate cooling of the GPU. I had been tracking temperatures from the onset of the first symptoms with a free utility called HWmonitor from CPUID. at Idle my GPU core temp was at 175F, and if I ran say Itunes with the graphic intensive Visualizer running the GPU would quickly shoot up to over 200F and I would shut it down.
So after the system completely just quit, the first thing I did was contact HP support to see if they would fix it under the service enhencement program. I spent an hour on the phone, even spoke to a supervisor... they're not fixing my computer, because the extended warranty coverage ended in april... I can't rant or post any further information about the reprocussions of that, because I've basically been told if I do so I'll be banned from the forums... so, that's the end of my rant...
Anyways, after I was told they will not repair it, I decided what the heck, I'm a tech anyway, might as well tear it down and have a look to see if anything is obvious on the board... well half a million screws, several curse words, and about an hour and a half later I had the board out on my desk. As soon as the heatsink/fan was visible I was amazed, it became clear exactly why the GPU had failed. It was so obvious it "slapped me in the face"... to anyone with a computer background it would seem that way...
On my notebook the heatsink/fan assembly is made out of "pot metal" okay the actual assembly has no real thermal dissapating value at all, what carries the heat away is the copper heat pipe that extends from the chip to the cooling fins that the fan blows across... well that's all well and good, only problem was that the heat pipe only went to the main CPU, over top of the GPU chip there was nothing but the "pot" metal, it has raised bumps there supposed to be like a heatsink of sorts... The fan was providing absolutely NO cooling support to the GPU, without the heatpipe.
Now, what I have learned is that on later models after HP learned of this problem with the Nvidia chips, they revised the heatsink and on the new ones the heat pipe extends around to cover the graphics chip. hmmm... what do you guys think about that.
Had the heatsink been correct from the beginning the nvidia chips likely wouldn't have failed, because they wouldn't have overheated in most cases. There are two more problems with that heatsink, one is that the CPU is in a socket, while the GPU is surface monted on the motherboard, well that's fine, but it means that the CPU sits up higher, thus there's a gap between the heatsink and the GPU, to fill this gap they are using a "gel" pad, it should be a copper attachment molded into the heatsink for optimal heat transfer, the gel does not work well enough if that thick. The second problem is that, at least on mine, the air inlet for the fan only covers about a third (maybe) of the surface area of the fan, so there's a massive flow restriction there... No doubt HP was trying to make the computers quiet, and they likely didn't realize the consequences at the time...
If any of you have one that still runs, there is a heatsink that you can swap on with the corrected heat pipe... it is for the amd dv2000, I do not know of part numbers for other series... part number for said one is 455843-001 that's the corrected version for dv2000. The part number for the one that came with my laptop is: 431851-001 for those of you who might be curious and want to plug those into a search engine and look at pictures... you will be amazed... After I get the green light from a certain "L"person that I can fix my computer, I plan to replace the motherboard, and get the newer heatsink, as well as drill out a few more holes under the fan so that it can move enough air. I am considering a copper mod, I will know more about that once I see how the new heatsink fits... once that is all done it should eliminate the possibility of a future failure due to heat.
Does anybody know if the later model DV2000 notebooks ever came with the Newer Nvidia 7150 graphics, mine had the 6150, and if at all possible I'm going to upgrade the motherboard to have the 7150, if anybody has a part number for one, I'd be greatfull... Then I can play some newer games, such as Sims3 on my notebook, cool...
At any rate suffice it to say my next notebook will likely not be another HP... don't get me wrong, I like my notebook, when I bought it it was a great little computer, I got the 14" because I wanted something compact, and at the time HP was one of the only ones putting a half decent graphics processor in the notebooks, everyone else had intel graphics, and if any of you game at all, you know the older intel chips are not gamer friendly, they're great for buisness or general use, but not for gamers...
08-21-2009 11:02 AM
You are spot on.
Most all non moving electronic parts will only fail from heat or impact resulting in a bad solder connection.
Meaning the chip is not defective just that it has lost contact on the board.
I will be Modding mine soon its a DV6253cl and still works but has no wireless i have heard that the copper shim mod can fix wireless as well and will try that before a new motherboard.
Anyone had success with the copper shim on GPU and wireless working afterwards with out 90 seconds of heat lamp on GPU with tinfoil cardboard sheild?
08-21-2009 11:42 AM
08-21-2009 01:32 PM
Watch the youtube video - type fix tx1000 in the search field
It is much less difficult than you may think to take the motherboard out of the tx1000 and to reassemble. Use a pure copper shim between the heatpipe assembly and the GPU. I would certainly use a pure copper shim as opposed to the penny. Use a good thermal paste, I recommend the Arctic Silver brand.
The keyboard flat cable slides into a connector that has a small plastic bar. You lift the bar to unlock it and the keyboard flat cable will slide out easily. When you reassemble, slide the flat keyboard cable back into the connector and snap the plastic bar back into position. When you replace the motherboard, make sure the slide switches for the power on/off & the wireless on/off are aligned with the switches on the motherboard.