09-21-2011 01:23 PM
Dear HP Support,
i am the happy owner of an HP 6710b (year 2007/2008 model) notebook.
Of course now it is a little bit dated. So i decided to upgrade my wifi card (intel) to a new Intel wifi card which supports the 802.11n standard.
Unfortunately i discovered that HP uses BIOS based wifi card whitelists to prohibit the user to upgrade the wifi card.
When i bought the notebook HP never mentioned it. HP advertised that the notebook has a mini pci express slot. Therefore i concluded that every mini pcie standards compatible wifi card would work.
1. Why do you use bios whitelists ?
2. How will you fix this ?
3. When will you fix this?
4. Which models are using a whitelist? Does HP sell any Notebook/netbook without a bios whitelist?
09-21-2011 06:21 PM
The first 3 questions are for HP guys but I'm not one..
HP provide service manuals for its products and you may find all compatible components in there. The whitelist contains all the part numbers from the service guide so when you want to upgrade a laptop, find the component in the service guide or choose the best you can get if more components are available..
The guide for your laptop: http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/C
There is an Intel 802.11a/b/g/n compatible wireless card. The part number is: 441086-001(for the US etc, see the manual for the right pn))
I think it's a WiFi Link 4965AGN. The part number is important because the same WiFi Link 4965AGN for the UK or other European/Asia countries will be probably different (use different wifi regulations than the US).
This one should work:
Testing - HP 15-p000 Donated to the Cancer Research UK
HP Touchpad provided by HP
Currently on Debian Wheeze
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09-22-2011 02:41 AM
HP notebooks dont have a whitelist for :
-usb gadgets like memory sticks
-pcmcia cards etc.
I could upgrade my wifi card by using a modified bios (maybe voiding warranty).
HP parts a much more expensive than "normal" wifi cards [140$ vs 15-20€]].
From my point of view HP never advertised the model as being locked down by a bios whitelist.
It is even possible that HP violated consumer laws and even worse anti trust laws in the European Union by using BIOS whitelists.
It is like buying a car and the manufacturer tells you that you can only use a certain brand of gas station.
I really would hope HP would clarify this situation.
09-22-2011 10:51 AM
sorry but this is complete BS.
The wifi card (intel) itself complies with the FCC rules. If it wouldnt it could not be sold.
Also the notebook and the card are pcie certified. same here.
Also the Notebook and the wifi card advertise to be Wi-Fi Alliance certified. That means they have to be interoperational. If not they are not WiFi-Alliance certified or the certification is not valid.
So if the certification is not valid, HP might violate consumer laws ("misleading advertisement").
funny, your linked document explicitly mentions PCMCIA (p 33):
- operating systems on laptops generally enable unrestricted PCMCIA transmitter operations
so why not pcie ?
If you want to replace a light bulb you can use any light bulb (which operates in the spec) and has the same socket. Because thats why a socket is a common norm.
same with pcie, wifi alliance, fcc regulations....
If the card is certified by the fcc it can be used....
09-22-2011 02:13 PM
HP can easily calculate possible antenna gains if necessary.
So the whole system will not emit more than 100mw.
On the other way round you can use your certified wifi card with an external antenna (and have maybe a higher EIRP output). So you can violate FCC regulations with a certified wifi card.
Conclusion: A whitelist does not prevent higher EIRP values (>20db , 100mW)
Also why does HP care. There is no reason to use a bios whitelist.
Other manufactures don't use one either.
11-25-2011 10:42 AM - edited 11-25-2011 11:50 AM
Well, those arguments mentioned above about wifi cards are valid.
What about GPU-s? Why are they included in whitelists?
My guess would be the whitelist is simply economically profitable for the company.
And you are wrong with your last statement - other manufacturers DO use bios whitelists too.
Computer old(ish), need new component? Why don't you simply upgr....ooooohwait, you can't. Buy a new system instead.
Debian Wheezy / Win7
01-11-2012 11:22 PM
Let's try this again.
1. HP's requirements in terms of radiation, etc. are at the time they sell the unit, not a year or two later when the built in wifi card has become completely obsolete.
2. I have an older DV9030 which is whitelisted to only allow a G card. It came with the Intel 3945 antique G card. I'd like to put in something like an Intel 5000 series 2 antenna (I assume there are 2 antennas in the pc) to replace it. The only real reason I can see a whitelist here is to encourage me to buy a new laptop.
3. I have a DV9933CL with the Intel 4965 AGN card. This card maintains a connection maybe for an hour before failing, and speeds and range with a very good current rounter stink. I'd like to put in an Intel 5300 Ultimate card also with 3 antennas. No one at HP will confirm or deny a whitelist on the F.5B bios. What makes me mad is that they are so secretive about it. It took me several months just to confirm that they did not have a harddrive whitelist (at least for the 2nd bay) in this bios.
4. On an older HP desktop of mine, HP says clearly that max mem is 1GB. Research found that the mobo actually took 2GB, confirmed by doing the upgrade. Another suggestion that HP discourages upgrades that may help someone put off buying a new system from them.
It would be real nice if HP were to be both open and honest about system specs and would stop doing whitelists in their bios's. I think it would breed a stronger brand loyalty and a lot less anger.