Deceptive HP Packaging....with lack of decision-making information

[Corvettewoman]

I have been an HP printer user for many, many years.  I like the way they work and stand up to wear. 

However, HP has packaging which makes it impossible to determine what you are getting for your money.

There was a multipack  (02 combo-pack with 5 HP ink colors) for $44.95 at Staples. On the back, it shows how much ink is in each of the color cartridges in mls (4.0 ml, 3.5 ml, 6.0 ml, 5.5 ml, 5.5 ml). 

There was another multipack with all 5 colors plus a black cartridge for $34.99 at Staples.  It looked like it was the better deal, but there was absolutely no information on the package that told how much ink was in each cartridge.  So how could I compare and determine what was the better price.  I found a salesperson who told me that there was about half the ink in the multipack with the 5 colors plus black cartridge package.  I don't know how he knew, but I took his word for it. 

In this day and age, not providing important information that will allow the customer to compare and make the best decision for him/her is unacceptable.  I couldn't compare the multi-packs nor could I compare the price of the multipack with the price of individual cartridges because there is no mention of the number of mls in the individual cartridges either.  It looks like you are starting to use the number of pages that each cartridge will print as a measure of how much is in a cartridge.  Why can't you put the number of pages AND the actual amount of ink in each cartridge?   And what does it mean when you say it will print 150 photos or 400 pages?    Does that mean that it will print 400 pages in that particular color?  

I teach marketing at a large state university, and this is not the kind of marketing that gives companies a good name.   Please give your customer better information about what they are getting in a cartridge.  It will make me feel more positively toward HP once again.

[Bob_Headrick]

The mL capacity of a cartrdige is at best a poor indicator of printing capacity since printers vary greatly (a factor of 2x or more) in thier pages per mL.

Now that there is a recognized standard for page yeilds HP and others are specifying page yield information on cartrdige packaging.

See the HP Page Yield website for information on the ISO standard HP uses for measuring page yield as well page yield information for recent printers.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, Microsoft MVP Printing/Imaging

[CaptainK]

I recently came across this conundrum too.  While the mL capacity might be a poor indicator of printing capacity when comparing different printers, it is still very useful information when comparing different versions of the same cartridge for the same printer.  As an owner of a printer that uses HP 02 cartridges, I wish HP would publish the ink capacity in mL of the different versions of HP 02 cartridges they offer (Original vs. Photo Pack vs. XL vs whatever).  I agree with the original author - the lack of this information makes it difficult to determine the best value when comparing different cartridges for the same printer.

Even though there may be a variation of up to 2x or more when it comes to printing capacity in pages per mL, it shoud still be proportional, *regardless* of printer, no?  Twice the ink is twice the ink, whether it is used for printing pages, printer setup, priming print heads, print head cleaning, etc.   From the article you quoted:

"ISO standard page yields should be used only as a starting point for comparison purposes, and not to predict the actual yield you will get from your HP printer and cartridge. Actual yield varies considerably based on the content of printed pages, frequency of printing, ink used in printer set-up and other factors, as discussed below."

To be honest,  these ISO page yields seem to be a monumental SWAG.  Please, give me an objective comparison method:  ink content in mL.  At least I know if one cartridge contains twice the ink of another, yet costs a little less than twice the price, it is the better value.

[Bob_Headrick]

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CaptainK wrote:

I recently came across this conundrum too.  While the mL capacity might be a poor indicator of printing capacity when comparing different printers, it is still very useful information when comparing different versions of the same cartridge for the same printer.  As an owner of a printer that uses HP 02 cartridges, I wish HP would publish the ink capacity in mL of the different versions of HP 02 cartridges they offer (Original vs.. Photo Pack vs.. XL vs. whatever).  I agree with the original author - the lack of this information makes it difficult to determine the best value when comparing different cartridges for the same printer.

Even though there may be a variation of up to 2x or more when it comes to printing capacity in pages per mL, it shoud still be proportional, *regardless* of printer, no?  Twice the ink is twice the ink, whether it is used for printing pages, printer setup, priming print heads, print head cleaning, etc.   From the article you quoted:

"ISO standard page yields should be used only as a starting point for comparison purposes, and not to predict the actual yield you will get from your HP printer and cartridge. Actual yield varies considerably based on the content of printed pages, frequency of printing, ink used in printer set-up and other factors, as discussed below."

To be honest,  these ISO page yields seem to be a monumental SWAG.  Please, give me an objective comparison method:  ink content in mL.  At least I know if one cartridge contains twice the ink of another, yet costs a little less than twice the price, it is the better value.

---

I would have to disagree with you on several points.  Before the ISO page yield standards each company used different methods to define what a "page" was, with one company in particular that defined their standard 8.5x11 page as one with 2" margins all around.  Most companies other than HP never had mL on the package or anywhere.   After years of development the ISO standard now gives an apples to apples comparison between printer models, different cartridge options and from different companies.

The ISO standard is not a SWAG, it is a rather rigorous test method.  Since you may or may not print exactly what is in the standard you may not get the same results, but it is a point of reference.  See here for more details of the test methods.

As for mL vs. pages, marketing would argue that folks do not (or should not) care how many mL of ink is in the cartridges, but rather how many prints they get out of the cartridge, how often they need to buy them and how much they cost.   A better measure than mL, even for a given printer, is the number of pages a print cartridge will provide.  HP provides this information at its page yield website here and now prints the information on many (most? all?) of its cartridges.

Regards,

Bob Headrick, Microsoft MVP Printing/Imaging

Message Edited by Bob_Headrick on 08-16-2009 02:46 PM

[theclaxtons]

Respectfully, Mr. Hedrick, while it's great that the yields are standardized across brands, I only care about what I'm buying for my HP printer.  I am actually less concerned about knowing the page yield info when I'm in the store than whether I'm getting a good value when I make a purchase.  

If you put the ml per cartridge on the single packs and multi-packs, then I will get an apples to apples comparison point.  When I was looking for ink yesterday, I was considering buying the photo pack, but it told me only how many photos I would be able to print from that pack.  All the single cartridges told me how many text pages I could print.  Even your own information is not apples to apples.  

All I want to know is if the cartridges in the multi-packs or photo packs have the same capacity as the single packs, and if not, then how much more or less.  If HP refuses to provide that information, then I will be less likely to buy my next printer from HP.  At least put the information on your web site.  I'd love to see it as a response to this forum post.  

It's really simple.  Just be honest with us, and we'll remain loyal customers.  Keep the info from us and you'll lose us as customers.   

Andrea Claxton

15 year HP printer user

[Bob_Headrick]

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theclaxtons wrote:

Respectfully, Mr. Hedrick, while it's great that the yields are standardized across brands, I only care about what I'm buying for my HP printer.  I am actually less concerned about knowing the page yield info when I'm in the store than whether I'm getting a good value when I make a purchase.  

If you put the ml per cartridge on the single packs and multi-packs, then I will get an apples to apples comparison point.  When I was looking for ink yesterday, I was considering buying the photo pack, but it told me only how many photos I would be able to print from that pack.  All the single cartridges told me how many text pages I could print.  Even your own information is not apples to apples.  

All I want to know is if the cartridges in the multi-packs or photo packs have the same capacity as the single packs, and if not, then how much more or less.  If HP refuses to provide that information, then I will be less likely to buy my next printer from HP.  At least put the information on your web site.  I'd love to see it as a response to this forum post.  

It's really simple.  Just be honest with us, and we'll remain loyal customers.  Keep the info from us and you'll lose us as customers.   

Andrea Claxton

15 year HP printer user

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OK, there are a few things to clarify here.  First, I do not work for HP and I do not have anything to do with what is printed on the cartridge packages.  I am a volunteer here.  

If you go to the page yield site listed above you will see that it has both the standard ISO page information as well as additional information on Photo yields.  You did not mention what printer you have so it is hard to speak specifically for your printer.  Generally there are various options for ink and paper combo packs.  The cartridges are generally sized to match the number of photo pages provided.  A pack with 60 photo pages will have a cartridge (or cartridges) sized to print 60 pages, a pack with 140 pages will have cartridges with enough ink to print 140 photos.  Depending on the model of printer the photo pack cartridges may have more or less ink than the standard cartridges.

[theclaxtons]

Okay.  Sorry I misread your role/title.  Thank you for responding.  I just wish HP would do a better job of giving us the appropriate information.  

Andrea