Officejet 8500 won't print Black ink only if other colors are out [ Edited ]

[Bob_Headrick]

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Enshala wrote:

[snip] Incidentally, I had a friend who was a 3rd party saleperson for HP, and she was actually instructed to tell her customers that there was a way to print in black and white, even if a color ink cartridge goes out, and that this was a big reason to buy HP over the competition.  I actually bought an 8500 to help her out (thus why I am here). [snip]

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There are two major kinds of inkjet printers:  one has ink tanks that include the printheads included, known as Integrated Print Head (IPH).  When the ink cartridge is replaced you get a fresh printhead as well.  These printers, which include the Deskjet 6940 for example, typically will allow printing with an empty cartridge, or even with one of the cartridges removed completely.  Since replacing the cartridge replaces the printhead as well there is no danger to the printer from running a cartridge beyond its supply of ink.

The other type has individual ink cartridges (IIC) and a separate printhead.  In some models the printhead is permanent and cannot be replaced (example Photosmart 3310), later models have printheads that can be replaced by the user (example the Officejet 8500).  These printers restrict printing when an ink supply is empty because to do so would risk clogging the printhead.  The ink in the Officejet 8500 is pigmented, like paint.  If the printheads are allowed to wave about in the air without ink to clear the nozzles at the end of the print job they risk clogging.  Clogging the printheads would result in difficulties printing when the low ink supply was replaced, perhaps requiring multiple cleaning cycles from the front panel or in some cases requiring replacement of the printheads.  To prevent this damage the printer firmware restricts printing on these models when there is not adequate ink in one or more supplies.  Some more information on how ink is used in the document here.

[approx]

So I guess you're suggesting that it was my fault to buy a printer that requires ALL (color and b/w) cartridges to not be empty for it to print just in b/w. While I sort of understand your technical reasoning, the product design is not sound considering it goes against common sense. Common sense being that if I only want to print in black n white, I should not be told to buy other three expensive color cartridges...Perhaps this should be considered as contructive feedback for your product team...  

[Bob_Headrick]

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approx wrote:

So I guess you're suggesting that it was my fault to buy a printer that requires ALL (color and b/w) cartridges to not be empty for it to print just in b/w. While I sort of understand your technical reasoning, the product design is not sound considering it goes against common sense. Common sense being that if I only want to print in black n white, I should not be told to buy other three expensive color cartridges...Perhaps this should be considered as contructive feedback for your product team...  

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Sorry, I am not suggesting fault, just the way things are and that there are technical reasons for that.  There are tradeoffs between the printer types - the IPH printers are typically less expensive but the cost per page is generally higher (since the printheads are replaced with each cartridge), whicle the IIC printers typically have a higher cost (due to more complex ink delivery systems) but provide lower cost per page.  It may be unfortunate that there is not better information in the retail area to make printer selection easier....

The technical issues are similar with other manufacturers, those with permanent printheads require ink in all the colors to prevent damage.

BTW, I do not have a product team - I do not work for HP (or anyone else).  The HP Expert designation I have is based on my posting here a lot as a volunteer.  The HP Experts with green backgrounds are volunteers, those with a blue background are HP employees.

[diesel999]

Bob Headrick, Thanks for the intelligent response. Your explanation points out the logic of the HP design whereby they have reduced the dynamic mass by leaving the ink reservoir stationary and following the moving print heads using the light-weight tubing. If such an explanation had been posted months ago it would have reduced the amount of ill-will generated by the problems exemplified in this thread.

It is exceptionally disappointing, however, that the designers (and early testers) failed to recognize the problems that they had created by using this design. There is undoubtedly some minor changes that could have been made that would have eliminated this problem altogether. At minimum, there should have been some discussion of the design consequences in the user’s manual.

[honda4fun]

Hi.

What brought me here was Googling a problem with the black ink tank becoming empty and finding out that the color ink wouldn't work after that time. I have been reading several posts and my problem is the opposite of yours, but now I understand that it's the same problem and same reason for it.

Why is technology changing and bringing us backwards? I have had 3 HP printers. The two before this were working fine until one day they wouldn't scan anymore. I contacted HP and they said an MS update knocked out that feature. That's something I never would have considered. They told me there was no way around it. The techie told me they don't expect printers to last more than 2 or 3 yrs. That's a shame.

Sooooo, we went out and bought another all-in-one fax, copier, scanner and printer. We gave the old one's away to a non-profit that could use them for education. This all-in-one one came highly rated and is considered more of a business machine. I have had two Compaq (now taken over by HP) computers since using this HP Office Jet J4580 and have never seen so much incompatibility between products. 

The printer has a window and you are supposed to be able to setup shortcuts for jobs you do repetitively. For example, I do most of my printing in greyscale, portrait, low dpi,... so I give that a name and I just look for it on the screen. Problem is, every other time I go to use it, it doesn't work and I end up opeining the program from the computer and manually choosing the settings, which takes much more time. Also, I have never had an HP update work--now that's sad, especially since one of them was supposed to be for the problem of the window not retaining the information.

Now onto this problem. Never in my wildest dreams would I think if I run out of black ink that the colored ink wouldn't work and vice versa. My other printers (I also had a couple of Canon's) would work. If the black ran out, the colored cartridge would mix colors to make black--it's more expensive, but good when you're in a bind like I was in the other day. I've also had friends who have color printers and never use the color feature, so they just buy black and keep using it.  I believe it's like someone else mentioned above, the printer would work regardless of a cartridge missing.

I bought my first refill instead of the original ink because it's just too costly. At the time, I wasn't aware that the ink level readings don't work on these types of cartridges. The message I got from the printer wasn't that the ink was out, but rather that there's a problem with the black cartridge. Since there was no streaking, I figured I still had ink. I cleaned the print heads, then a deeper cleaning and I managed to get one more paper printed. After this time, I kept getting the message that there's a problem with the black cartridge.  

I was a day away from seeing a specialist out of town and wanted to bring some printouts with me. I got most of them done, but it's maddening when I didn't know what the problem was and had to spend time trying to figure out a fix....then finding out there isn't one unless I replace the ink cartridge.  GRRR

I would say this information should be posted in BOLD print ON THE BOX so the consumer knows exactly what they are getting.  I thought the whole point of separate cartridges was to save money--most people use mainly black ink, so you don't have to keep replacing the color one as much. They shoudl just go back to making one cartridge for all colors since that's the way it's working (or not working) anyway.

I doubt I"ll be buying another HP printer. Soooo not happy with the last one's performance...Sue

P.S. I still luv my Compaq CPU though!

[Mitsos]

Hi, I own an HP c6280. Printer just run out of yellow ink and it's gone unusable. This printer has a far more expensive PRINT cost that any other inkjet i owned in the past, plus the "one ink ends, printer halts" design is really weird. From now on i am going to look out only for refills, and if it still doesn't work, I will be happy to throw it away and never buy HP again.

[MGPG]

Sue--

Thank you for posting your experience. You're not alone. I have had several HP printers and loved them all--until now. Best wishes, Maureen

[tony2360]

Hi, can you explain in more details where to put the tape on the color cartridges?

Thanks.

[abeeb]

On the end of the cartridge is large oblong hole. If you look inside, you'll see a black rubber bladder. This collapses when the ink empties and triggers a sensor. Just put some tape over the hole. I put some slack in the tape a bit so that it approximated the depth of the bladder somewhat. Hope this helps!

[Hydrokronik]

WOW wish I had known htis befoer I bought this expensive 8500 so in order to use my full black in white ink cartidge I have to by 3 other ink cartridges G thanks alot HP this will be the last printer I buy from you guys ever talking about milking people for their money its just rude