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John39
Posts: 1
Member Since: ‎02-28-2011
Message 1 of 31 (18,180 Views)
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Photosmart C309a and 564XL ink cartridges

I cannot find a replacement 564XL black ink (as distinct from the black Photo) cartridge for my C309a printer.  The printer currently uses a CB321W cartridge and I am always offered a CN684WA cartridge.

 

The CN684WA says all the right things on the box: it is green, not blue like the non-XL cartridges, it says Black instead of Photo, it says it is for C309a printers.  The problem is that it looks to be too narrow for the black ink's slot in the C309a's cartridge carrier.

 

The black ink's carrier slot is much wider than the slots for the other cartridges and it has a much bigger hole for feeding ink to the printer.  On the surface, the narrower cartridge will flop around as the carrier flies back and forwards and there is every reason to suspect that the feeder hole will be too small--in fact, an email from HP support explicitly says "not to buy the photo black assuming it to be black cartridge as it will not fit in the unit" (my emphasis).

 

Does anyone know what is happening?  Should I ignore the implications of Support's comment any buy the smaller CN684WA cartridge?  Does the narrow CN684WA work properly in the C309a's wider black in cartridge slot?

Honor Student
ministorage7
Posts: 1
Member Since: ‎03-03-2011
Message 2 of 31 (18,135 Views)

Re: Photosmart C309a and 564XL ink cartridges

Dear John39,

  I am not an expert, just an owner of a HP Photosmart Premium c309a All in One, experiencing the same frustration as you.

This is what I did and what I have surmised... My printer takes one large 564XL black ink cartridge and One "Photo" black ink cartridge (along with 3 separate color inks) I went to purchase the usual large 564XL black cartridge at Office Depot. The labeling still says "564XL" black. In smaller print in upper right corner it says, "NEW Lower price, smaller size". Which will undoubtedly not catch most peoples attention. Just like you, I brought it home and realized it did not fit my printer. The Asst. Mgr. of the store was not informed that this 'change' has happened (that, or he's a  good actor) Bottom line is: HP is longer making it! The one they are now selling only fits their brand new printer. My printer is only 1 yr and 3 mos. old. I am not buying a 'brand new printer'. Where I live "Cartridge World" refills the larger 564XL blk cartridges, and possibily Walgreens, but I'm not sure about them. I am glad to give Cartridge World my business, though it is an inconvenience to us to drive to the closest location. Cheers to HP's monopoly! Seeing how they do business, I will be interested in my next printer being a Canon or another brand, no doubt. All the best!

Regents Professor
Ciara_B
Posts: 6,330
Member Since: ‎11-27-2009
Message 3 of 31 (18,095 Views)

Re: Photosmart C309a and 564XL ink cartridges

Hi John39

Check out the link below, the 564 cartridges were updated...

"The updated black XL cartridge body is physically smaller and will use less plastic than the existing black XL cartridge body."
Another link you may find helpful is SureSupply: https://h30042.www3.hp.com/SureSupply/#3
...you can use this for determing the compatible cartridges for a given printer model no.
Hope this helps, Ciara
Although I am an HP employee, I am speaking for myself and not for HP.
Twitter: @Ciara_B_HP
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FeralUrchin
Posts: 12
Member Since: ‎04-04-2009
Message 4 of 31 (17,803 Views)

Re: Photosmart C309a and 564XL ink cartridges

[ Edited ]

I believe that the alleged rationale for this change, "newer cartridges use less plastic" is spurious.  On a per-page basis, smaller cartridges will use more plastic, not less.  If the approximate ratio is 2 old wide == 3 new narrower, then it's obvious that the three narrower ones will require more plastic than two older ones.  Consider the sidewalls alone: same area, but 6 sidewalls (2 each x 3 cartridges) versus 4 (2 each x 2 cartridges).  This is simply a case of HP continuing to play games with cartridges to support its business model (cheap printers, expensive ink).  You'd think {Content Removed: no legal discussion permitted} prompted by this sort of game playing, HP would smarten up.  I have 3 HP printers that use the 564 cartridge set.  They're going out the window, and I'll probably buy  Epson printers to  replace them.

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akjackson
Posts: 8
Member Since: ‎07-25-2011
Message 5 of 31 (17,275 Views)

Re: Photosmart C309a and 564XL ink cartridges

The new and unimproved slimmer 564XL cartridge will fit and operate just fine in the C309a printer.  It will not rattle around loosely as the ink head moves back and forth. There is even a smaller black cartridge (564) that will fit just fine in the large black cartridge slot. 

 

HP has made this move to maximize their cash flow. Owners of the C309a were not buying black cartridges fast enough and when they did a root cause analysis, they determined that the cartridge held too much ink. In my opinion this was not a customer friendly move, and vendors who treat their customers this way, deserve to loose their customers.

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Bob_Headrick
Posts: 16,011
Member Since: ‎11-17-2008
Message 6 of 31 (17,271 Views)

Re: Photosmart C309a and 564XL ink cartridges


akjackson wrote:

[snip] HP has made this move to maximize their cash flow. Owners of the C309a were not buying black cartridges fast enough and when they did a root cause analysis, they determined that the cartridge held too much ink. In my opinion this was not a customer friendly move, and vendors who treat their customers this way, deserve to loose their customers.


This is interesting speculation, but not based in fact.  Because of the way the printhead has to move across the page any reduction in width of the black cartrdige can result in a 2X reduction in the width of the printer. 

 

The change should be revenue neutral for HP, as the price was reduced in proportion to the reduction in ink.

Bob Headrick, Microsoft MVP Windows Expert - Consumer,  HP Expert

I am not an employee of Microsoft or HP, I am a volunteer posting here on my own time.

If your problem is solved please click the "Accept as Solution" button ------------V

If my answer was helpful please click the "Thumbs Up" to say "Thank You"--V

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rhane71
Posts: 1
Member Since: ‎08-19-2011
Message 7 of 31 (17,047 Views)

Re: Photosmart C309a and 564XL ink cartridges

The akjackson was right.  This is a cost savings and revenue generating move by HP.  Sure at the time of announcement the costs were based with a reduced price* to be consistent with the current estimated cost per page based on ISO yield. But for how long.  They don't have to hold the standard for any given time.  There is no law to hold them to that.  So good business accounting would tell you that from a bottom line aspect, the more you use, the faster you run out, the more you buy.  Why would HP change a cartridge for two new printers they are going to come out with in the future when the old one works on six current models?  Why not just make another cartridge? I will tell you why not.  They can save money by shutting down a line of cartridges that do not sell as often because they last longer and are just slightly more expensive to consumers.  When a Company tells you "Its not about the money" remember "Its always about the money."

 

Your statement "Because of the way the printhead has to move across the page any reduction in width of the black cartridge can result in a 2X reduction in the width of the printer." is flawed.  The cartridge feeds into a well head that supplies a printhead carriage that moves across the page.  You can have one that holds 5 times more ink and not effect the size of the printer as long as the size of the cartridge does not exceed the size of the printhead carriage.  A smaller cartridge has no sigificant value in reduction of the printer unless you change the size of the printhead carriage. 

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Bob_Headrick
Posts: 16,011
Member Since: ‎11-17-2008
Message 8 of 31 (17,041 Views)

Re: Photosmart C309a and 564XL ink cartridges

[ Edited ]

rhane71 wrote:

[snip] Your statement "Because of the way the printhead has to move across the page any reduction in width of the black cartridge can result in a 2X reduction in the width of the printer." is flawed.  The cartridge feeds into a well head that supplies a printhead carriage that moves across the page.  You can have one that holds 5 times more ink and not effect the size of the printer as long as the size of the cartridge does not exceed the size of the printhead carriage.  A smaller cartridge has no sigificant value in reduction of the printer unless you change the size of the printhead carriage. 


[More uninformed speculation snipped.] As for the printer width, the newer models do have narrower carriages which is why the original xl cartridge is not compatible.  Enabling this was a reason for narrowing the supply.

 

It is true that this result could have been done my making a four new sku's for the smaller version of the larger cartridge, but there are already lots (too many IMHO) of sku's.

Bob Headrick, Microsoft MVP Windows Expert - Consumer,  HP Expert

I am not an employee of Microsoft or HP, I am a volunteer posting here on my own time.

If your problem is solved please click the "Accept as Solution" button ------------V

If my answer was helpful please click the "Thumbs Up" to say "Thank You"--V

Honor Student
bovie
Posts: 3
Member Since: ‎03-15-2011
Message 9 of 31 (16,916 Views)

Re: Photosmart C309a and 564XL ink cartridges

The newer 564XL black ink cartridge IS compatible.  The tab is larger still allowing the cartridge to fit securely into the printer.  Do not confuse the 2 black cartridges.  Remember, each cartridge has a symbol on the side (blue has the triangle, magenta has a square, etc).  The NEW smaller black cartridge STILL has a pentagon on the side.  As far as reasons why HP made the move, I don't really care.  Hope this helps others who run  into this situation. (I do not work for HP, I just pay a little more attention to the details).

Honor Student
iamuser1
Posts: 2
Member Since: ‎09-29-2010
Message 10 of 31 (14,679 Views)

Re: Photosmart C309a and 564XL ink cartridges


rhane71 wrote:

The akjackson was right.  This is a cost savings and revenue generating move by HP.  Sure at the time of announcement the costs were based with a reduced price* to be consistent with the current estimated cost per page based on ISO yield. But for how long.  They don't have to hold the standard for any given time.  There is no law to hold them to that.  So good business accounting would tell you that from a bottom line aspect, the more you use, the faster you run out, the more you buy.  Why would HP change a cartridge for two new printers they are going to come out with in the future when the old one works on six current models?  Why not just make another cartridge? I will tell you why not.  They can save money by shutting down a line of cartridges that do not sell as often because they last longer and are just slightly more expensive to consumers.  When a Company tells you "Its not about the money" remember "Its always about the money."

 

Your statement "Because of the way the printhead has to move across the page any reduction in width of the black cartridge can result in a 2X reduction in the width of the printer." is flawed.  The cartridge feeds into a well head that supplies a printhead carriage that moves across the page.  You can have one that holds 5 times more ink and not effect the size of the printer as long as the size of the cartridge does not exceed the size of the printhead carriage.  A smaller cartridge has no sigificant value in reduction of the printer unless you change the size of the printhead carriage. 


Thank you for sharing your insight.

 

† The opinions expressed above are the personal opinions of the authors, not of HP. By using this site, you accept the Terms of Use and Rules of Participation