04-07-2020 11:28 PM
I recommend skipping the IBM card and simply buying a LSI 9210/9211/9212 card that already has "IT" firmware installed
all LSI 92xx cards use the same "ROC" chip (Raid On Chip) and most models have both "IT" = Initiator Target (which is non raid)
and "IR" = Raid firmware
HBA= Host Bus Adapter
xxxx- 4i or 8i, refers to the number of drive connectors the card supports (4 or 8 drives)
most low end "ROC" LSI cards are either RAID or Non Raid (depending on if the card model has both types of firmware)
cards like the LSI 9260 are Raid only, they do not have "IT" firmware available
most lowend LSI "ROC" based cards while raid capable, are poor performers due to the lack of onboard cach/battery backup
and should be used in raid 0/1/10 modes only.
if used with "IT" firmware they make great cards for adding more SATA ports
all LSI cards in the 92xx range are PCI-e x4 (or x8) this is how they are able to deliver fast speeds while multiple drives are accessed at the same time (yes, data links = pci-e links)
yes a HBA card can be raid or non raid, the LSI 9240 card is unique in their model range as it can support both Raid/NonRaid at the same time (see raid restrictions listed above) and like all lowend LSI cards it has no cache/batt backup
a alternative card to consider is the adaptec ASR-71605, this card is like the LSI 9240, but is much more flexible in that it supports true raid due to onboard cache/batt backup, supports up to 16 (or 24 drives depending on model) and has true JBOD (just a Bunch Of Drives) passthrough and can support BOTH Raid/JBOD at the same time
the 71605 can be found on ebay for about 70.00 including the cache/batt backup module
it uses Mini SAS connectors instead of the full sized SAS connectors
there is no need to split drives keep in mind that ESXi supports/uses the card natively so you can use either Raid mode or JBOD and software raid
04-08-2020 06:52 AM - edited 04-08-2020 07:09 AM
SDH has made very good remarks.
Here are the highest marks in each test parameter for the HP z600 on Passmark Performance Test, 1,165 systems tested:
Rating: 4111 > 2X Xeon X5670 / Radeon RX480 / Samsung 960 EVO 500GB / 32GB RAM
CPU: 14760 > 2X Xeon X5675
2D: 793 > Quadro 2000
3D: 9334 > GTX 1070
Memory: 2148 > 12GB on E5620 system
Disk: 26710 > Crucial CT100P1SSD8 Highest Disk on RAID card: 16224 on LSI MR9271-8i / No. 3 = 11134 on LSI MR9260-8i
CPU: Of the top 20 CPU marks, 12 are X5675 and 8 are X5670. Without working through all the results, the X5675 appears to be the best performer. I notice that the X5680, another contemporary X58 / LGA1366 CPU is apparently not compatible. Suggest Xeon X5675
Graphics: Suggest Quadro 2000 or Quadro 2000D (=2X DVI), on which SDH may concur. These earlier Quadros have 2D performance as good as and sometimes superior to later GPUs that are more 3D oriented.
Memory: Suggest maximizing RAM (96GB) or buying modules to allow eventual maximum, using RAM having the HP part number. The X58 chipset is triple-channel memory, so the best results are obtained with 3X identical modules placed symmetrically to each processor.
Disk: Suggest a fast SSD of 500GB for the OS/Programs and LSI RAID 8i- card. Suggest Samsung 860 EVO 500GB. This kind of card is extremely flexible, capable of extended 0+1 RAIDs on both SATA and SAS drives that can daisy change many drives, some cards may run 125 drives. It should be mentioned that Passmark disk marks are related only to the C:\OS drive and do not reflect the data drives. As DGroves mentions, be aware of the RAID and non-RAID capabilities of HBA and RAID cards.
This is the HP z600 RAID configuration page:
The Passmark scores (by the way they have a free 30-day trial) are relative only to other Passmark scores and very useful in that the marks are related to particular components in real-world systems. As well as the quick identification of better performing components in a particular system combination is the ability to track progress in upgrades. For example, the last office X58 / LGA1366 system as purchased:
Dell Precision T5500 (2011) (Original) Xeon E5620 quad core @ 2.4 / 2.6 GHz > 6GB DDR3 ECC Reg 1333 > Quadro FX 580 (512MB) > Dell PERC 6/i SAS /SATA controller > Seagate Cheetah 15K 146GB and 300GB > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
[ Passmark system rating = 1479 / CPU = 4067 / 2D= 520 / 3D= 311 / Mem= 1473 / Disk= 1208]
Notice the PERC 6/i RAID controller that allowed the use of 15K RPM SAS drives
The results for the Revision 2 T5500:
Dell Precision T5500 (2011) (Rev 2) > 2X Xeon X5680 six -core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz, 48GB DDR3 ECC 1333 > Quadro 4000 (2GB) > Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB / 875W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3692 / CPU = 14379 / 2D= 651 / 3D= 2285 / Mem= 1792 / Disk= 2934] 8.9.17
A number of component choices were based on comparative Passmark results. The Samsung 840 was the first SSD used in any of the office systems.
Let us know how you get on.
HP z620_2 (2017) (R7) > Xeon E5-1680 v2 (8C@ 4.3GHz) / z420 Liquid Cooling / 64GB (HP/Samsung 8X 8GB DDR3-1866 ECC registered) / Quadro P2000 5GB _ GTX 1070 Ti 8GB / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI + Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 500GB + HGST 7K6000 4TB / Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 sound interface + 2X Mackie MR824 / 825W PSU /> HP OEM Windows 7 Prof.’l 64-bit > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)
[ Passmark Rating = 6280 / CPU rating = 17178 / 2D = 819 / 3D= 12629 / Mem = 3002 / Disk = 13751 / Single Thread Mark = 2368 [10.23.18]
04-08-2020 07:22 AM
Thanks very much for your input. I am going to go with the X5675 once I have the tested things are working with the first wave of purchases. The info on graphics is very interesting as well not sure I'll do much though considering it is pci-e 2.
Thank you for all the information, really covered the questions I had.
In the end I opted for the M1015 as the LSI cards were going to take over a month and a half to arrive.
My only concern now is realizing that I cannot get at the hot swap bay cabling. A backplane is expensive and messy and the only male to male connectors I can see on ebay say 500Mb/s transfer speed (?), Any thoughts on how I keep using the hot swap bays but with the new controller?
04-08-2020 10:10 AM
ignore the male to male 500mbs that's just "market speak" think about it,....how would a less than one eight strip of metal limit a data xfer? answer it doesn't
you can not replace the existing SAS/SATA hotswap cables as they run to the drive end and have the drive connectors at the end and thes connectors are non renovable the entire 4 sata cables/drive connectors is one unit, just use the male to male adapters to connect to the raid card's cable and it'll be fine
04-08-2020 10:37 AM
Thank you again!
I had thought it was mad for that male to male connector to be a bottleneck but then no practical experience had me concerned. Great to have your knowledgeable input!
Thanks to everyone for the valuable input! There are so many thoroughly useful posts I don't know which to mark as the solution hehe
I will give a couple updates one bits start arriving.
Touched that people have been so generous with their time and knowledge 🙂
04-08-2020 10:45 AM - edited 04-08-2020 10:50 AM
Regarding video cards.... we currently use a pretty large number of both the Quadro 2000 and 2000D. There is a black version with a rounded rear end. I have found incompatibility and more noise from them. I like the rectangular silver version much better and it has a better more quiet fan. The downside is that nVidia has less recent drivers for it..... it is no longer actively supported, but has been working great for all of our needs including W10.
The next step up is the Quadro K2000 and K2000D. The D version, as above, has two dual link DVI ports. The regular version has a single dual link DVI port and two DisplayPort ports above. You can only use 2 of the 3 total at any one time. We have some medical monitors that cannot function with a DP to DVI adapter.... they demand dual link DVI ports only, or DP-DP cable. Hence for a 4 monitor setup I build those with the regular card above and the D version card in the bottom video slot. nVidia has still been updating drivers for those. You would not need the D version, so I'd recommend either a K2000 or a K2200. These all are reasonably priced used off eBay, and I personally use the K2200 because it has more memory but also is faster.
Few can tell the difference between PCIe gen II and PCIe gen III. Don't worry about that a bit. If you want to worry about such things just donate that workstation away and spend the money to get the most recent one you could possibly afford. Take out a mortgage.
The Z600 has only two drive drawers and thus only 2 cables coming out of the backplane area down. As DGroves has advised you can extend these to reach your PCIe SATA III card (which I'd put in the bottom PCIe x16 slot because you'll not be running 4 monitors). I assume you want three 3TB 3.5" form factor HDDs because you'll be creating a RAID using all three. Here is what I'd do: One of each of those in the two drive drawers. The third I'd put in one of your two 5.25" drive bays in an adapter. I'll get you the part number for the best one.... from HP. Finally, find another 5.25" adapter that will let you put in your SATA III 2.5" form factor SSD, plus will have a space for one of the ultraslim 9.5mm optical drives. The SATA cable from that can go down to one of the SATA II motherboard ports. It is nice to have that available when you need it which is pretty rare these days.
For what it is worth, I really still like the HP Texas Instruments bases "2x2" USB3 card I've posted about in detail in the past here. You might want to shoehorn that in too.
04-08-2020 01:37 PM - edited 04-08-2020 01:38 PM
The HP 5.25 to 3.5 adapters are well engineered, and generally expensive. Best I saw with a quick search was about 36.00 USD. Use google for that. Search under 488505-002, 570576, and NW099AA which worked best. These are rock solid and provide good airflow for cooling as you'd expect from the HP crew....