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HP Z640 Xeon V3 Processor Upgrade

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HP Z640

Howdy!

 

I have a HP Z640 with 2 Xeon E5-2609 V3 processors, and now I want to upgrade it.

Checking on the Z640 specs (http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04400040.pdf) I see several options for the V3 processors (V4 too, but they are more expensive). On this I have 2 questions that I would really appreciate your feebacks, please:

 

1) Is the Z640 compatible with ANY E5 V3 processor ? I ask this because I don't see on the spec sheet some intel processors listed, like the E5-2698 V3.

2) Besides removing the old processors and install the new ones, is it necessary any further action, like bios or any other firmware update ?

3) Is there any kind of incompatibility on the motherboard of the Z640, like it happens with the Z600 B3 C2 revision, that I should be aware of ?

 

Thanks.

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Message 2 of 9
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not having a z640 i can only offthis observation

 

the z640 box's are very compact considering what they contain, as such heat and power draw can be a issue it's possible that cpu's which draw more wattage than what HP has specced will not run, and may give a bios error on startup to that effect

 

hp may also not want the box to compete with the z840 in terms of processor speeds and may block the faster cpu's because of this

 

to be safe when upgrading stay with the HP approved cpu's or at least make sure a unlisted cpu is the same (or less) wattage as what hp lists on their fastest cpu

 

depending on the software used,..... more cores rather than more "IPC" may give better results and sometimes stepping down one level in clock speed will save money and power draw, but only be 1-3% slower overall

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PeterSchwatz75,

 

The z640 specification for Xeon E5 v3 processors includes CPU's up to 18 cores and 145W:

 

https://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/getpdf.aspx/c04400040.pdf?ver=1.0

See pages 3 and 4

 

I don't see a listing for the Xeon E5-2698 v3:

 

https://ark.intel.com/products/81060/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2698-v3-40M-Cache-2-30-GHz-

 

>  that is 135W and therefore within the power range supported. However, on Passmark Performance Test baselines, of the 154, z640's tested, there are no z640's using the E5-2598 v3.  I would advise against considering it.

 

The highest Passmark result for CPU performance in the z640 is 24576 using a pair of E5-2667 v3 8-cores. No. 2 on the list is E5-2667 v4 at 24234.  The E5-2667 has always been a good performer, the v2 as well. The balance of clock speed to core count seems to be about the best with 8-core processors.  In a z620, results have been very good using an E5-1680 v2  8-core overclocked to 4.3Ghz

 

As all the motherboard listings in Passmark results call it "212A", it's nearly certain that the BIOS must be updated to accept v4's.  Research that carefully, and especially the method to make the update.  In general, it seems that E5 v4's have somewhat higher single thread performance than v3- for example, the E5-1650 v4  averages a Passmark 2181 against 2138 for v3, but on the other hand, some E5-1600 v3's may be overclocked using Intel Extreme Tuning Utility.  There are E5-1650 v3's running on consumer motherboards at up to 4.8GHz.

 

Passmark CPU ratings are loosely a relative description of the number of total clock cycles per unit time, but choosing a CPU is more involved than that. If you're considering a 16-core, you may well know what you need, but look carefully into the applications you're using with the goal of understanding how well the principal programs are multi-threaded,  which are  more dependent on single-thread performance, and which can or can't use multiple proceeors. In server, compute, CPU rendering, and simulation, the core count can be more important than clock speed, but in visualization, 3D CAD, and animation, the single thread -clock speed- predominates.  Also, some software does not recognize multiple processors- Adobe products for example, others don't recognize multiple GPU's such as Autodesk.  There are some useful articles on these subjects on the Puget Systems site. 

 

BambiBoomZ

 

 

 

 

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it's most likely (if the nameing is correct) that this model came out after HP did their certified cpu list, or it may be a model that was made for OEM use only, or as i said hp simply did not want the higher models certified with the z640 

 

 

unless you can get a 2698 cpu for almost no money, i would heed  Bambiboomz's advice and only  use the HP approved cpu's

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Hi PeterSchwatz75,

 

As with DGroves and BambiBoomZ, I don't have a Z640, but regarding your questions I hope the following may help.

 

1) I know personally of 2 different occassions where either a friend or myself have tried to install a CPU not listed in the respective quickspecs from the same Xeon family in both the HP Z600 and HP Z620 workstations. On both occassions, the computers failed to boot. So I would have to say you definitely cannot install a CPU that isn't listed in your workstation quickspecs. However, see 2) below;

 

2) During the lifespan of HP workstations, component compatibility improves, i.e. through BIOS updates. Adding support for M.2 drives and UEFI boot for the HP Zx20 platform being a prime example, which occured when a later BIOS was released. To answer your question, you should only have to upgrade your BIOS if the CPU listed in the quickspecs was released by Intel after the date of your BIOS. If you have a very early BIOS release then a BIOS upgrade may possibly be required. Basically, I would stick to the CPU's listed in the quickspecs and try the CPU prior to upgrading the BIOS.

 

3) I notice your current CPU is only 85W but some of the other v3 CPU's listed in the quickspecs are 145W, which is quite a jump in power demand, and more importantly - more heat. Being unfamiliar with the Z640 platform and available heatsinks, I would strongly recommend you do some further investigation to determine if your current CPU heatsink is suitable for the higher power CPU's. e.g. there are various heatsink models available for the Z420/Z820 workstations - you need to use the liquid version for the E5-2687W CPU's due to their power demand and high heat output.   

HP Z620 - Liquid Cooled E5-1680v2 @4.7GHz / 64GB Hynix PC3-14900R 1866MHz / GTX1080Ti FE 11GB / Quadro P2000 5GB / Samsung 256GB PCIe M.2 256GB AHCI / Passmark 9.0 Rating = 7147 / CPU 17461 / 2D 1019 / 3D 14464 / Mem 3153 / Disk 15451 / Single Threaded 2551
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Message 6 of 9
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Peter,

 

Here are some added points:  HP has a part of the BIOS that contains a white list for processors, and that has been called "the microcode" here in this forum.  Thus, just because a processor should work in a Z640 does not mean it will.  Only those in the white list will and those are the ones HP has done extensive validation testing on.  So, the answer to your first question is no.  There may be several exemptions to this rule.

 

Of interest the way HP usually gets out a new white list of validated processors is via a BIOS update.... the microcode white list is rolled into the BIOS.  Not every BIOS upgrade includes a microcode white list update.  So, a newly listed processor that is in the latest QuickSpecs may not work in your workstation until you do a BIOS update to the latest version.  HP rarely has released a microcode white list update without it being part of a larger BIOS update, and that has been the exception to the rule.  The last one I remember like that was for the xw4600.  The QuickSpecs you linked to is very recent so any processor there should work in your Z640 assuming you have a very recent BIOS.  Another answer is that, no, there is no known version 1 versus version 2 motherboard issue for the ZX40 generation of motherboards unlike the case with the ZX00 and ZX20 series.

 

As with the Z420/Z620 eccentric heatsink/fan unit I believe the Z440/Z640 heatsink/fan unit for both is the same.... and all rated to "Performance" rather than "Mainstream" specs.  I have a spare Z640/Z440 heatsink/fan that I'll post pictures of beside a Z620/Z420 version.  It is bigger, and has more heat tubes (4 instead of 3).  Same size 92 x 25 mm fan, both from Foxconn at same amperage.  So, it is well suited to the bit higher wattage of some of the ZX40 v3 and v4 processors you can see in your latest QuickSpecs versus the latest QuickSpecs for the Z620/Z420.  It is quite a bit more impressive bit of kit versus the older generation ZX20 Performance heatsink/fan.

 

The fan plug on the end is different.... 6 pins instead of 5.  The wiring for those who have followed this for most Performance HP heatsink/fan units has been standard PWM order (ground/12VDC/rotor rpm to motherboard/pwm control from motherboard to motor).  Plus a ground jumper wire from pin 1 to pin 5 socket if it is Performance.  No jumper if Mainstream.  With the ZX40 heatsink/fan there is the ground jumper from pin 1 to pin 5 and then a little ground jumper from pin 5 to pin 6.  I'm not sure why they did that but there must be a good reason that we'll figure out later.

 

Images to come.......

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The images below can only be viewed after a moderator releases them.

 

This Z440/Z640 heatsink/fan was bought to see if I could convert the fan plug end to the Z420/Z620 5-pin plug end design and whether I can use this bigger heatsink in my single-processor project Z620 that I have converted from a v1 to a v2 motherboard, and plan to overclock.  The use of HP liquid cooling technology is also on the project board for that.  Not sure if this larger one will fit yet inside the constraints of the Z620 motherboard hardware and the black plastic cooling shroud but I do know courtesy of our friend Bambi that the Z420's water cooler will fit in there. 

 

The mounting screw offsets are the same for the Z620 and Z640 sockets so in theory this might be plug and play.  I doubt it, however, because HP does so much custom engineering for each new generation of workstations and the spaces inside are limited......

5-pin Z420 Z620.JPG6-pin Z440 Z640.JPGSide by side front.JPGSide by side side.JPG 

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@Brian1965 wrote:

Hi PeterSchwatz75,

 

As with DGroves and BambiBoomZ, I don't have a Z640, but regarding your questions I hope the following may help.

 

1) I know personally of 2 different occassions where either a friend or myself have tried to install a CPU not listed in the respective quickspecs from the same Xeon family in both the HP Z600 and HP Z620 workstations. On both occassions, the computers failed to boot. So I would have to say you definitely cannot install a CPU that isn't listed in your workstation quickspecs. However, see 2) below;

 

2) During the lifespan of HP workstations, component compatibility improves, i.e. through BIOS updates. Adding support for M.2 drives and UEFI boot for the HP Zx20 platform being a prime example, which occured when a later BIOS was released. To answer your question, you should only have to upgrade your BIOS if the CPU listed in the quickspecs was released by Intel after the date of your BIOS. If you have a very early BIOS release then a BIOS upgrade may possibly be required. Basically, I would stick to the CPU's listed in the quickspecs and try the CPU prior to upgrading the BIOS.

 

3) I notice your current CPU is only 85W but some of the other v3 CPU's listed in the quickspecs are 145W, which is quite a jump in power demand, and more importantly - more heat. Being unfamiliar with the Z640 platform and available heatsinks, I would strongly recommend you do some further investigation to determine if your current CPU heatsink is suitable for the higher power CPU's. e.g. there are various heatsink models available for the Z420/Z820 workstations - you need to use the liquid version for the E5-2687W CPU's due to their power demand and high heat

How did you guys managed to overclock those xeons on hp platform? I dont ser multiplayer settings in my bios?

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Please look at this post.

 

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Business-PCs-Workstations-and-Point-of-Sale-Systems/z420-z620-overcklo...

HP Z620 - Liquid Cooled E5-1680v2 @4.7GHz / 64GB Hynix PC3-14900R 1866MHz / GTX1080Ti FE 11GB / Quadro P2000 5GB / Samsung 256GB PCIe M.2 256GB AHCI / Passmark 9.0 Rating = 7147 / CPU 17461 / 2D 1019 / 3D 14464 / Mem 3153 / Disk 15451 / Single Threaded 2551
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