HP Z800 RTX 2080 Ti - cutting out issue (full stop)

[dava4444]

Hi guys

First post, so please be gentle.

I'll detail the history below*..

So when I fired up the 2080  Ti in the Z600, the system *sudden stopped* going into any game.

I blamed the 650W PSU.

So I bought Z800 with 850W PSU.

Same problem. sudden stop when going into games.

I completed the sellers tests (DDU,heaven benchmark) same result.

So I returned the card. The seller ran the card for 48h in heaven benchmark. The seller said the card ran fine.

So I face this dilemma.. 

£1000 brick I cannot use.. £1230 wasted.

or risk blowing a further £200 on the 1250w PSU.. and so risk blowing £1430 on again.. a potential brick.

What should I do? 😞

Dava

-------------

Notes:

*I started with a Z400 (X5650 9GB 1333mhz RAM with GTX 660) moved up to a Z600 (Dual X5650 24GB 1333mhz ECC with GTX 970) couple of years later.. was really happy. The GTX 970 was getting old for gaming so I bought a RX 480 8GB.. which all it did was micro stutter and frame lag.. bought 2 x GTX 1070 thinking I could SLI, NOPE! the Z600 doesn't SLI (certainly not normal cards) so I sold one..so far lost a ton of cash..(bought RX 480 for £230 iirc..sold for £96 + 2 x R9 280X for £48 each.. for CEX so £188 voucher and bought a 1070 from them for £275.. so extra £87).. sold 1 GTX 1070 for £200.

So I had enough messing around.. so I bought a 2080 Ti. In the Z600 it sudden stopped. So I bought a Z800 for £230. same problem.So the money was wasted.  Currently the card is with the seller who said he would pass it on the the manufacturer. Who IF they have a Z800 can test and if not.. It'll be sent back to me for it to have the same fault.

[BambiBoomZ]

Dava4444,

There are so many variables at play, and without a lot of other information, in my view, the RTX 2080 Ti "sudden stop" may be in general a mismatch of processor, memory, and disk speed to the GPU capabilities. The Xeon X5650 is 2,66/ 3.06GHz, the RAM is 1333MHz,  the PCIE specification is 2.0, and the disk is SATAII.  Also, dual CPU's introduce some latency into a system as there has to a  1-bit parity check to sync the two processors. If the z800 were  an animal, I'd say, that the RTX 2080 Ti is not being fed fast enough.  The principal problems are the CPU clock speed- the Passmark average single-thread rating for the X5650 is 1226, memory speed and bandwidth.  Looking at typical baselines for RTX 2080 Ti systems on Passmark, a very high proportion are using an i9-9900K and these are often overclocked to 5.0, 5.1, 5.2GHz.  The average Passmark single thread rating for the i9-9900K is 2961, but the top one running an RTX 2080 Ti calculates to 3826. I like LGA1366 very much but for modern gaming at a high level, the RTX 2080 Ti is disproportionate; too severely bottlenecked mostly by the clock and memory speed. On Passmark with well over 1Million systems tested there is not X5650 /RTX 2080 Ti system.

To derive closer to the full performance of the RTX 2080Ti, consider the potential of a z620 second version, Xeon E5-1660 v2 6C@3.7/4.0Ghz overclocked using Intel Extreme Tuning Utility to 4.3GHz on all cores  / z420 liquid cooler / 16 or 32GB of PC3-14900E- that's DDR3-1866 ECC unbuffered / RTX 2080 Ti, a Samsung 9X0 PRO M.2 250 or 500GB NVMe. The z620 is chosen so as to have the 825W power supply as z420'a are 400W or 600W.

Example of this approach: For a second office system to run a 40" 4K monitor, it was possible to make a good performing system at a reasonable cost along these lines:

z420 second version (2013 boot block date)  $136

Xeon E5-1650 (6C@3.5/3.9GHz) overclocked to 4.3 GHz on all cores  $90

Z420 liquid cooler: $62

32GB PC3-14900R (R =ECC registered) $60

EVGA SSC GTX 1060 6GB  $111

Samsung 860EVO 500GB $77

HGST 7K6000 4TB  $116

________________________

Total, about $660  - a bit more than half the cost of an RTX 2080Ti

The performance is quite good:

Note the all important single thread mark is 2384.  I don't know the gaming potential, but this system is very good in 3D modeling, rendering, and photo editing.

This system though would not achieve full performance from an RTX 2080 Ti

For comparison, the best marks for z800 (991 tested) in each test parameter:

Rating:  4713  (Dual X5680 / Radeon RX480)

CPU: 15338 (2X X5690) ( Note that the single E5-1650 v2 makes almost as many clock cycles per unit time as two 6-core X5690's)

2D:  840   GTX Titan Black (Note that 2D of the GTX 1060 is about the same)

3D; 11258 (2X Xeon X5698 2-core @ 4.4GHz / Radeon  WX 9100 ($1,500)( The single thread for the X5698 is 1816)

Memory: 2042  (64GB)

Disk: 25951 (OCZ Revodrive3)

The best of the best z800's is quite good, but especially in gaming use, the same high end components used will still be limited by the top single-thread performance.

BambiBoomZ 

HP z620_2 (2017) (R7) > Xeon E5-1680 v2 (8-core@ 4.3GHz) / z420 Liquid Cooling / 64GB DDR3-1866 ECC Reg / Quadro P2000 5GB _ GTX 1070 Ti 8GB / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI + Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 500GB + HGST 7K6000 4TB / Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 sound interface + 2X Mackie MR824 / 825W PSU /> HP OEM Windows 7 Prof.’l 64-bit > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)

[ Passmark Rating = 6280 / CPU rating = 17178 / 2D = 819 / 3D= 12629 / Mem = 3002 / Disk = 13751 / Single Thread Mark = 2368 [10.23.18]

[dava4444]

HI Bambi

Thanks for your reply.

I am currently using the system (Z800) with my GTX 1070 and the Z600 worked with the GTX 1070 also.

So we can discount.. mismatched processor, memory.. my drives are PCIE drives (M.2 non-sata) soo pretty much 2 GB/s.

(I also have SSDs and a couple of HDDs, LOADS of drives, but SSDs are 1w to 5w.. although I only had one HDD in at the time).

I have switched off HT and multi CPU in the BIOS and the same result of a hard stop.. to be clear.. by sudden stop.. I mean the system instantly reboots upon the first second of initiating 3D graphics. Only one game did not do this.. DC Universe Online.. I changed the NVCP profile to 'power' and that seemed to make the game work.. all other games.. even Bioshock (1) 2008 even underclocking the card even using the 'power' option as above.. the PC sudden stopped.

I noticed in Afterburner/Riva OSD.. that the card did not ramp up while in DC Universe Online but stayed at it's default desktop low performance settings. DCUO is from 2011 (it's the only MMO I play).

Bottlenecking a card *should* make the CPU go to 100%.. if there is *some* safety feature in the BIOS (although I tried many) I missed to protect the CPUs.. I wish I knew what it was.

The 12C/24T of the Xeons @ 3GHZ.. is fine. I'm happy with the system in other regards..with the GTX 1070 everything is working fine. But.. they will send back the 2080 Ti.. and I can't afford a new build with how my finances are and how much I have already blown (see notes.. around £300+ for graphics cards wasted + Z800 for £230 that I didn't need to buy).

I enjoy playing in 3K @ 96hz.. I see it as the best of both worlds.. but I haven't been able to with the 1070.

[dava4444]

(the first attempt of my reply was marked as spam 😕 )

HI Bambi

Thanks for your reply.

I am currently using the system (Z800) with my GTX 1070 and the Z600 worked with the GTX 1070 also.

So we can discount.. mismatched processor, memory.. my drives are PCIE drives (M.2 non-sata) soo pretty much 2 GB/s.

(I also have SSDs and a couple of HDDs, LOADS of drives, but SSDs are 1w to 5w.. although I only had one HDD in at the time).

I have switched off HT and multi CPU in the BIOS and the same result of a hard stop.. to be clear.. by sudden stop.. I mean the system instantly reboots upon the first second of initiating 3D graphics. Only one game did not do this.. DC Universe Online.. I changed the NVCP profile to 'power' and that seemed to make the game work.. all other games.. even Bioshock (1) 2008 even underclocking the card even using the 'power' option as above.. the PC sudden stopped.

I noticed in Afterburner/Riva OSD.. that the card did not ramp up while in DC Universe Online but stayed at it's default desktop low performance settings. DCUO is from 2011 (it's the only MMO I play).

Bottlenecking a card *should* make the CPU go to 100%.. if there is *some* safety feature in the BIOS (although I tried many) I missed to protect the CPUs.. I wish I knew what it was.

The 12C/24T of the Xeons @ 3GHZ.. is fine. I'm happy with the system in other regards..with the GTX 1070 everything is working fine. But.. they will send back the 2080 Ti.. and I can't afford a new build with how my finances are and how much I have already blown (see notes.. around £300+ for graphics cards wasted + Z800 for £230 that I didn't need to buy).

I enjoy playing in 3K @ 96hz.. I see it as the best of both worlds.. but I haven't been able to with the 1070.

[Brian1965]

Hi Dava4444,

I would recommend you buy a plug-in power meter similar to that shown below;

Simply plug into your mains supply and plug your Z800 into the meter. You will be able to see the true power draw from the Z800 in terms of watts and verify if your PSU is large enough to cope. You would of course need to find the correct type of power meter depending on your geographic location to match the mains socket outlet style. These meters are relatively cheap and could possibly save you throwing more money at the Z800 unnecessarily.

The reason I started with the power meter is that your power draw would appear to be approaching the 800W mark. Below us an example from the HP Z800 quickspecs;

As you see from the above example, the power consumption is almost 750W based on this machines configuration (100VAC supply). Comparing this to your set up, you are using 2x X5650 cpu's which are 95W each. In the above example, the 2x W5570 cpu's are 130W each. i.e. you are drawing 70W less in total for the cpu's. However, the FX4800 card used in the above example is only a 146W card and the RTX 2080Ti card is a ~250W card. Doing the maths then;

750W - 70W (X5650 instead of W5570) - 146W (FX4800 card) + 250W (RTX 2080Ti card) = ~784W Total Power

The above does not take into account any addition power that may be used by the system fans, additonal RAM, PCIe cards or HDD's or other components ramping up their performance to match. You appear to be very close to the maximum your PSU can supply.

[dava4444]

Hi Brian

Thanks for your reply. This is what I thought the problem was also.. the PSU.

The current PSU is 850w 80plus Bronze.. so minimum I should have* 680w.

My wattage guesstimation breakdown would go:

95 + 95 = 190w

50w for the motherboard (75w is included in the card TDP)

4 x SSD = 1-5 watts each = 20w max

(att) 1 HDD = 15-20w

Optical = 5-20w max

3x PCIE drives. 1w each = 3-5w max.

fans.. (I had only 4 fans in the Z600) now.. iirc 6-10 fans 5-10w each = 50-100w max

Card.. *meant* to have a max TDP of 250w.. but let's call it 300w.

total  =578w min to 705w max, the fans never full blow so.. 50w would be a more accurate max..

So would you say.. a solution might be to just buy the HP 1250w PSU? (its 80plus silver)

It would give a wattage of at least: 1062.5w

I'll buy one of those* meters when I get paid.. pretty broke just now.

Thanks for the tip @ meter.. seen those a few times, but never thought to check on ebay for one.

*(at 80% even though it's meant to be 85%.. so 722.5w)

(I'm Scottish from Scotland btw)

[Brian1965]

Hi Dava4444,

Glad to assist a fellow Scotsman, (originally from Fife but now in Northumberland).

I would still recommend you get one of the power meters and check your current system before you consider investing in the bigger HP Z800 PSU. I would check the system under load with various games  or using Passmark Performance Test with a GPU card which will run 3D graphics, i.e. not the RTX 2080Ti card. You can then determine the additional load expected had the RTX  2080Ti card ran the tests, (knowing the RTX needs a minimum of 250W under load).

Note: Please also remember that the HP Z800 workstations only have PCIe gen 2 slots which means that you will not be able to achieve the full potential of the RTX cards which are PCIe gen 3 compliant. FYI, The HP Zx20 workstations have PCIe gen 3 slots.

[dava4444]

update:

I RMA'd the card but no fault was found.

I bought the HP 1250w 80plus Silver PSU.

Erm.. I managed to play a couple of games.. kind of.. not really.

I have a 4K TV.. when trying to change the resolution in Borderlands (GOTY Enhanced) it cut out.

I let it boot up again.. I went into the Turing Test..  it auto set the resolution to 1440p, I tried to change it to 4K. it cut out.

I let it boot up again.. I went into the Borderlands TPS..  it auto set the resolution to 1080p, I managed to change it to 1440p I exited and did a power cycle.

I booted up again.. I went back into the Borderlands TPS..  got to the 2K Games intro. it cut out.

Strangely.. my saves seem to have gotten corrupted.. 😕

My TV looks pants for games unless you turn the refresh rate waaayy up..  looks grainy. Just one reason I use custom resolutions. I was asked to do DDU and do everything vanila for the RMA.. it still happened. So the custom res's aren't the problem.

I decided to move the Physix to the CPU.. nope it hated that. I tried turning off threaded optimization.. didn't seem to like that.

Currently I am trying.. I have turned off hyper-threading in the bios and turned off turbo..I had also already tried turning off (all) turbos and it cut out.

[DGroves]

both z600/620 and z800/820 have factory stock and upgraded power supplies available the z880 upgraded supply is 1150 watts

furthermore several venders on ebay/alibaba sell z800 to std ATX power supply adapters

when buying 6 pin to 8 pin adapters, it's hard to tell which ones are good quality ones vs the cheap ones

you might want to replace the adapters and make sure the connections are tight and not loose

next, all of the factory power supplies are of the "multi rail" design instead of the more common consumer single rail design that many consumer/enthusiast supplies now ship with (google for a description on the main difference between them)

in a nut shell, a multi rail supply can be overloaded on one rail while still under the supplies total wattage

last the z800 stock 850 watt supply should power a z800  2080 just barely however the 2080 TI model draws 300 watts!!

this is most likely over loading the single 12v GPU rail in the stock 850 watt supply

the upgraded 1150 watt supply has a second GPU 12 volt rail and a third 6 pin gpu connector.

if you power the 2080, from each GPU rail, using the 1150 watt supply ( GPU 1 and GPU 2) it should have no problems

and FYI, the z800 came with a quadro fx 5800 at the top video card option with a stock 850 watt supply and it draws 145 watts ( your trying to do 300 watts !!!)

the nvidia 1080 (non TI) cards will work on the stock 850 watt supply and the 1080 TI with the 1150 watt supply

playing with custom resolutions/refresh rates may cause your card or video display to lock up and go black,....so ti might be the video display failing and not the video card output if using custom non standard modes

[OnSugarMountain]

BambiBoomZ:

you wrote:

"The principal problems are the CPU clock speed- the Passmark average single-thread rating for the X5650 is 1226, memory speed and bandwidth. Looking at typical baselines for RTX 2080 Ti systems on Passmark, a very high proportion are using an i9-9900K and these are often overclocked to 5.0, 5.1, 5.2GHz. The average Passmark single thread rating for the i9-9900K is 2961, but the top one running an RTX 2080 Ti calculates to 3826."

I've been on https://www.passmark.com/ trying to figure out how you search for Passmark ratings given a specific combination of CPU and GPU. Would you share a step-by-step?

Until reading some of your posts, I had thought that for rendering and other GPU heavy loads, the CPU speed was irrelevant. Your Passmark ratings posts clearly point out that there's a diminishing point of return for throwing higher end graphics cards at older CPU workstations.

In my case, I've got a v1 (12/28/2011 Boot Block Date) dual E5-2670 Z820 and I'd like to research on Passmark which NVIDIA GPU card is the max I can really get a benefit from.