Highest End Z400 Build

[SDH]

Nelson..... may I recommend that you contact the poster on the thread below, who wrote 10/2/15 about getting the X5690 plus 48GB of RAM going on his multiple Z400 workstations?  That post is the one that finally convinced me to go ahead and buy my first X5690 for my Version 2 Z400 workstations (the ones with 6 memory slots instead of 4).

The link is HERE.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Business-PCs-Workstations-and-Point-of-Sale-Systems/HP-Z400-CPU-upgrade...

It would be very valuable to find out from him exactly the brand and source and ordering code for his 8GB sticks which are proven to work in his multiple Z400s.  Once you have one of those sticks in hand you can sometimes locate the exact same thing used on eBay from the codes on the label attached to the stick.  If he would scan in a front image of one of those sticks with its sticker visible that would great, too.

Please keep us posted on this project, and good luck!

Scott

[nelsona]

Thank you Scott for all your help.

If I find anything new, I'll make sure to let you know.

Nelson

[nelsona]

So as far as the M.2 goes, it's not supported by a Z400 as a bootable drive (or any motherboard which does not support UEFI).

The thread in question can be found here:

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Business-PCs-Workstations-and-Point-of-Sale-Systems/PCIe-SSD-in-Z400/td...

...with the following relevant post:

"I installed a Samsung m951 with a generic m.2 to pcie adapter card in my z800 and it worked fine as a data drive and is much faster than any SATA or SAS SSD you could use.  However, the best information I have been able to gather with some hours of research is that the z800 will never be able to boot off of it.  You need UEFI, which is only supported in the z420/z620/z820 and z440/z640/z840.  Even moving to Windows 8.1 or Windows 10 will not help, since it is a BIOS issue and HP is not updating the BIOS for these older models anymore.

The particular application I wanted to speed up was, unfortunately, not disk bound after all and did not benefit much from the super-fast SSD, so I returned it.  I would have kept it if I had been able to use it as a boot drive.

If you want to boot off an SSD, then just install a normal SATA2 or SATA3 SSD and deal with the 3 MBps limit on the SATA controller on the z800.  You would have to have 4 or 5 of these SATA drives connected in RAID to come close to saturating even SATA2, so don't worry about z800 being limited to SATA2.  If you are building an array that large, you'll be going about it differently.

As other posters have pointed out, even a 500Mbps SATA2 SSD is so much faster than any HHD that you won't notice a difference functionally compared to a 1000 to 2000 Mbps PCIe SSD.  In my data-drive configuration, I was looking at some very large file transfers and thought the additional speed would be worthwhile but it turned out otherwise for this particlar application.  (I have since found out that I might have been wrong and that the effect is specific to the particular kind of model being run, but it is too late for me to test it out since I returned the drive.  I wanted more than 500GB anyway.)"

Nelson

[SDH]

Dig deeper, Nelson.....  HERE.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Business-PCs-Workstations-and-Point-of-Sale-Systems/PCIe-SSD/td-p/55733...

So, the M.2 SSD in a PCIe adapter (in a Z600) "is in the system and running buttery smooth. The Read write speeds are absolutley insane" according to Brian.  I've no doubt it would work the same in a Z400, and have asked him for some added details, as you'll see.... this is a boot PCIe SSD drive, by the way.  It sure seems that the hardware you buy makes a big difference.

The hardware I'm thinking of getting for testing is what Brian is using:  Kingston HyperX Predator Half-Height, Half-Length (HH-HL) 240GB PCI-Express 2.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SHPM2280P2H/240G (with HHHL Adapter), and you can find reviews and take a look:  http://www.kingston.com/us/ssd/consumer/shpm2280p2

Scott

[nelsona]

Thanks for the post, Scott.

I'll make sure to look into this further and let you know.

Thank you,

Nelson

[nelsona]

So as a quick update, it looks like both the Kingston HyperX Predator and Samsung 950 Pro are both bootable on an X58 chipset.

The reason for 950 Pro being bootable, is that Samsung included a controller which is compatible with legacy bios' (i.e. non-UEFI), I assume this is also why the HyperX is also bootable on an X58.

I'm currently leaning towards the 950 Pro due to the following differences between both drives:

http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Samsung-950-NVMe-PCIe-M2-256GB-vs-Kingston-HyperX-Predator-AHCI...

...showing the Samsung being far superior to the HyperX.

That being said, multiple users have complained about the 950 Pro becoming overheated, which leads to a drop in performance (meaning that the 950 Pro must be passively or actively cooled to ensure peak performance).

Nelson

[SDH]

There are some added things to be aware of.  Some of these PCIe M.2 SSD drives do have amazing speed potential, assuming you also have amazing speed potential on your PCIe bus.  Take, for example, the 6 series HP workstations:

The xw6400 had only PCIe Gen 1 slots (plus a few legacy PCI slots).  Then came the xw6600 with its two PCIe Gen 2 slots (the two video slots).  That is why I put my HP Texas Instruments based PCIe "2x2" USB3 card into the second of those two slots..... its USB3 bandwidth can be matched by that PCIe Gen 2 slot.  That also would be where one should put a PCIe SATA III card in a xw6600, because the other non-video slots are all PCIe Gen 1.

You get where I'm going..... the Predator card, on the Kingston web site has "Interface: PCIe Gen 2.0 x 4".  But that does not matter for those of us with the ZX00 series of HP workstations because all the PCIe slots in those are Gen 2.0 or Gen 1.0 too.  You can look in the technical manual to see which is which.  Surely don't put it in a PCIe Gen 1 slot...

Rough data:  a M.2 Gen 3.0 PCIe SSD in a Gen 3.0 PCIe slot may reach 32GB/s; in a Gen 2.0 PCIe slot it may reach only about 10GB/s, and the SATA Gen III 2.5" form factor in a SATA Gen III workstation may reach 6GB/s.  The ZX20 workstations have some SATA Gen III, but the ZX00 workstations are SATA Gen II, by the way.  So, don't expect the ZX40 PCIe Gen 3.0 slot speeds from any of these PCIe SSDs in your Z400.  However, you still can expect a boost from this project.

[nelsona]

Understood SDH.

But just to make sure, when you say I can expect a "boost from this project", do you mean in regards to using a M.2 over an SSD like a Samsung 850 Pro?

If so, then it's worth it.

If not, then I suppose I'll just go with the 850 Pro as my bootable.

Thank you,

Nelson

[SDH]

Nelson,

Brian got back to us all about the PCIe M.2 SSD that he has up and running in his Z600 workstations, which should work fine as a bootable drive in the Z400, Z600, Z800 workstations (and , I believe, in both the Version 1 and Version 2 types of each).  He explains more and shows it in the boot drive section of BIOS  HERE.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Business-PCs-Workstations-and-Point-of-Sale-Systems/PCIe-SSD/td-p/55733...

Regarding your question.... the fastest your 2.5" form factor SSD can run in these ZX00 workstations is limited by their being SATA Gen II workstations just like the xw6400/8400, xw6600/8600, and the xw4600, even if you use a SATA Gen III SSD.  So, cut that 6GB/s speed in half to 3GB/s speed, and compare it to the estimated speed of 10GB/s if you go for the M.2 PCIe SSD Brian has up and running on his.

It comes down to balance..... if all your components are fast I believe you will perceive a significant change.  If you have a slow processor and slow memory and slow video card not so much.  For intensive drive I/O chores then there will surely be a big difference.

[nelsona]

Hello Scott,

I've actually decided to go via PCIE for both the SSD and M.2.

1. The M.2 will be plugged into one of the motherboards PCIE2 x 16 slots via the following adapter:

Angelbird Wings PX1 PCIe x4 M.2 Adapter

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018U79YQK?tag=anandtech01-20&ascsubtag=[site|anand[cat|NA[art|9856[pid|B0...

...the adapter is necessary when using the Samsung 950 M.2:

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-950-PRO-Internal-MZ-V5P512BW/dp/B01639694M/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qi...

...as the 950 is notorious for its drop in performance when thermal throttling.

Using the M.2 in the PCIE2 x 16 slot should give me about 1500 MB / sec sequential read performance (compared to the maximum of 2500 MB / sec if plugged into a PCIE3 x 16 slot) as well as 1000 MB / sec sequential write preformance ((compared to the maximum of 1500 MB / sec if plugged into a PCIE3 x 16 slot).

2. The other PCIE2 x 16 slot will be populated by a graphics card such as the Nvidia GTX 1080 (I've seen multiple articles detailing that the drop in performance between plugging in a graphics card into a PCIE2 x 16 vs a PCIE3 x 16 as being a difference in a few percentage points, ex 1 - 3%).

3. I plan on purchasing an SSD (as secondary storage) and plugging in the SSD into the sole PCIE2 x8 on the motherboard via the following adapter:

https://www.amazon.ca/SEDNA-Express-PCIe-SATA-Adapter/dp/B00FVXQO88/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=147682764...

The SSD in question is the Samsung 850 Pro (likely a 2TB version).

With the adapter, I don't see how I will be limited (plus the adapter comes with a secondary SATA III port - which could be useful for another drive in the future).

4. The remaining PCIE x8 (generation 1.0 not 2.0 like the port from point 3) will be used for a USB3 PCIE express adapter such as the following:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FPIMJEW/ref=psdc_229185_t3_B01C59TB0I

5. As for RAM, I can almost confirm that the following 48 GB sticks should work:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8H53HD5595

Buying 2 pairs (each pair consists of 3 - 8 GB sticks) should push me to 48 GB and spec wise, they match up perfectly with my pre-existing RAM.

6. CPU will be upgraded to a X5690 (used go for around $200.00)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeon-X5690-3-46GHz-Six-Core-AT80614005913AB-Processor-SLBVX-/2016838...

Nelson