Turbo Drive does not boot in Z820

[walter_f]

Hello!

I've got a tricky problem with my Z820 triyng to use  a Turbo Drive with 256GB (first generation) as my boot drive.

What I've done so far:

1) as recommended, I upgraded the BIOS of the z820 to the latest version 3.92

2) I installed the Turbo Drive (SM951 1534 REV 0 NVMe)

-> the SSD was not detected as a boot drive in the BIOS

Nevertheless I went on: 

3) I installed Win 8.1 prof. 64 in EFI-mode, which worked well up to the first attempt to rebbot while installing the os...

4) the SSD was still not detected as a boot drive...

I searched he internet and found an issue with Turbo Drives (part no. 801075-001 which is mine, too) and Z840 workstations (not z820??).

To fix this issue there is a firmware update (SP81375) for the SSD that changes the firmware from BXW73H0Q to BXW75H0Q. The software package contains an OEM version of the Samsung SSD Toolkit (DC_toolkit_OEM_V1_1_5.exe). 

I tried to run this program (DC_toolkit_OEM_V1_1_5.exe) several times with different options and in different configurations (as normal user, as admin, in normal mode, in safe mode, with win 8.1 prof. 64 and win 10 prof. 64). It always crashes with a runtime error (no error code): "This application has requested the Runtime to terminate in an unusual way.", so that I can't update the SSD Firmware. The "end user" Samsung software "magician" does not work with OEM SSDs 😞

I reinstalled both the os's several times (onto the SAS Harddisk), always the same behaviour. I installed the SSD on my XW4600 workstation (win 8.1 prof. 64) as well, there the software for updating the firmware worked fine, but unfortunately the Turbo Drive keeps invisible both in the BIOS and the os.

So now I've run out of ideas; maybe here is someone to help me:-)

Walter

[DGroves]

the turbo drive "G2" is a nvme based drive and is not bootable on the z800/z820

only the original turbo drive is SATA based and bootable

per your description: (I installed the Turbo Drive (SM951 1534 REV 0 NVMe)) you have a nvme model of this drive not the sata version as such it will not work as a boot drive, only as a data drive

 The AHCI version carries the code MZ-HPVxxx0 (where xxx is the capacity in gigabytes),

 whereas the NVMe version is called MZ-VPVxxx0

  note the "V" and "H" in the code location at the question mark  MZ-?pvxxx to determine the version ssd you have

if you do have the nvme version then the firmware update did no damage

if you have the AHCI/SATA version then this firmware update will render the SSD unbootable or non working

however the updater should hopefully check the model interface and if AHCI refuse to install

[walter_f]

Hello DGroves,

thank you for your quick answer. You're right, I have a MZ-VPV2560 Model, although it was sold to me as pre -"G2". I tried really hard to find out a way to check the exact model of the turbo drive before purchasing, but the information you find on the HP site is not very detailed.

You can't find the model-no. of the card (in this case I would have needed a G3G88AA) anywhere, neither on the ssd card nor on the PCIe-adaptor. And the Type of the SSD-Card used seems to be documented nowhere, too, at least I was not able to find any information of that kind...:-(

I have found a single MZ-HPV2560 for sale, without the PCIe - card. Do you happen to know if it will work in my existing one from the "wrong" ssd?

By the way, my attempts to update the Firmware did'nt cause any damage, as the program did'nt work, though this update was intended to be the exact one for my "wrong" VPV-Model. I assume the "runtime error" was caused by the wrong type of card in the z820...

Greetings from Germany,
Walter

[DGroves · Accepted solution]

the hp pci-e card will work with any ssd that uses four pci e lanes and should also work with a ssd that uses two lanes

please note the pci-e card should be installed in the top most pci-e slot for the z820

also this pci-e card is unique in that it has jumpers to allow up to four of thes cards to be installed with the jumpers selecting a unique card id for each card. some people have reported this card does not work in their non HP system and i suspect it's related to the card id setting and might work if this was changed 

again any of the samsung SM951 (AHCI/SATA) model  ssd will work  (in the pci-e HP card) reguardless of who the oem maker was (dell/HP/Lenovo, or retail) the ssamsung xm941  ssd will also work (it is the precursor to the sm951)

also the RETAIL samsung nvme sm950 will work (it is unique as it includes the legacy OROM nessary to allow booting)

very few nvme based ssd's have this legacy OROM and no current model nvme does  as the market has shifted in the past 18 months to the new/current motherboards that now have full nvme support in their bios

[walter_f]

Hello DGroves,

thank you! So I'm going to buy the HPV type now, as it seems to be a rare item...

Greetings,
Walter

[DGroves]

if anyone has it this place will and their support is top notch!!! they are true SSD specialists

and they only sell new products and their OEM ssd drives they also back with a warranty

i recomend the SM951 (AHCI/SATA) or the sm950 but you can ask them if any other model ssd matches the sm951 in performance

https://www.ramcity.com.au/

[walter_f]

Thanks for the link!

By the way, I just noticed, that there are both model numbers on the sticker of my SM951, whatever that means...

[SDH]

You need a HP Z Turbo Drive G1, also known as a Z Turbo Drive.  As DGroves says..... the G2 version will not work in the ZX20 workstations.  G2 will work in the ZX40 workstations.

The G1 has no finned aluminum heatsink; the G2 does.  The G1 appears out of production by HP, but there are still some out in the supply channels.

The G1 is based on a specially firmware tuned Samsung XP941 M.2 SSD, and runs on its built in AHCI controller.  The HP BIOS for these workstations have been modified to accept booting from the G1 whether the BIOS is run in Legacy and NVMe modes.  Here's the hardware, and if you could find a non-HP XP941 AHCI controller M.2 SSD and put it in a HP G1 PCIe adapter I'm quite sure you would not be able to boot from it.  You need the special HP mouse milk:

http://www.samsung.com/us/hpworkstation/media/HP_OTSI_ZTurbo_SSD_WhitePaper.pdf

The SM951 AHCI controller M.2 SSD is different hardware.

The Samsung (non-HP) SM951 AHCI M.2 SSD I tracked down and bought can be seen and used by the OS in my ZX20 workstations, but not as a boot drive despite all my best efforts.  I used a spare HP PCIe adapter from a G1 for that experiment, plus some others. 

Another M.2 SSD that works fine on the ZX20 workstations and also our ZX00 workstations is the Kingston Predator M.2 SSD AHCI controller PCIe adapter card I've posted about in the forum.  Those, however, are out of production.  I discovered they will blue screen crash unless you use the right storage controller driver.  Two drivers would work on all my 2.5" form factor SSDs; only 1 of the 2 would work on our Predator M.2 SSDs (specifically, the SHPM2280P2H/240G with HHHL Adapter).

Get the G1 from HP.

[DGroves]

the HP Samsung XP941 ssd that was offered on the hp turbo drive pci-e cards was replaced with the samsung sm951 AHCI ssd after the XP941 was no longer made by samsung i know as several later turbo drive kits we ordered from hp came with the sm951 instead of the XP941 and this is what i'm currently using

in reguards to the heatsink i belive that "SDH" is correct in that only the G2 models seem to have the heatsink even though the xm941 ssd's ran hotter than the nvme/ahci based sm951 ssd's

we actually made  custom heatsinks out of  stock 100mm x 40mm aluminum heatsinks bought off ebay for our xm941's

later on we just bought the "g2" cards, and then resold the nvme drives, keeping the card/heatsink

i stll have a xm941 with the custom heatsink lying around somewhere

there is a thread on a site that uses the hackentosh bootloader method adapted for AMI based bios's to preload the nessary nvme modules before starting windows allowing nvme drives to work as a boot drive and this method is supposed to work on the hp z800/z820 workstations. however this method appears to be rather complex and requires a USB key to pre-load the needed missing nvme support files i might try this if my sm951 fails and i am unable to source another sm951

if you are interested here's the link:

https://www.win-raid.com/f50-HOW-TO-s-NVMe-Support-for-old-Systems.html

[walter_f]

Hello SDH,

...and I thought eveything was fine now...

---

wrote:

The G1 has no finned aluminum heatsink; the G2 does.  The G1 appears out of production by HP, but there are still some out in the supply channels. 

well, that's what I thought, too; the card I purchased has no heatsink, the adaptor board seems to be  produced in 2013, that was the main reason I believed it to be a G1...
So it seems that someone changed the original XP941 to a SM951...

wrote:
The Samsung (non-HP) SM951 AHCI M.2 SSD I tracked down and bought can be seen and used by the OS in my ZX20 workstations, but not as a boot drive despite all my best efforts.  I used a spare HP PCIe adapter from a G1 for that experiment, plus some others.

I found a single SM 951 AHCI model for sale, which has an HP-part no. on its label. What's your opinion about that? Should it work for booting or is there only a poor chance?

....puzzled again,
Walter