z420/z620 overcklock

[OmTatSat]

Hello, i whant to overcklock 1650 v2 in z420/z620 v2.

For start i am use XTU and it is capeble to overcklock all threads to 3.9GHz

Then i find out that if i ran ThrottleStop and set multipler to 42 after this i can increase overcklock in XTU to 42 too, and 1650 v2 work in 4.2GHz. But in heavy load processor reach 130W TDP limit and drop multipler to 38-39 = 3.8-3.9GHz.

I whant to unlock and increase 130W TDP limit. But i am not know how to do this. In internet i have read that some users get overcklock to 4.8GHz in zx20 v2 motherboard. So i think there is solution to bypass 130W TDP limit. Also i have read that some people use uefitool to patch bios, but i cant find any mentions about uefitool + z420/z620 + bypass TDP limit.

Also i am think about ram overcklock via ram spd mod by Thaiphoon Burner 1600MHz to 1866MHz

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[DGroves]

you can not modify the bios's on most (all?) current HP workstations while there may be some models that have bios's that are not checksumed most are and the HP 620 is checksumed, what this meansis that the existing installed bios will check the new bios for any changes via checksumming it's value and if diffrent reject the new bios and prevent it's install i believe the z420 does the same

[BambiBoomZ]

OmTatSat,

I've used Intel Extreme Tuning Utility to overclock a Xeon E5-1660 v2 in a z420 to all cores @ 4.2GHz and an E5-1680 v2 to 4.3GHz on all 8 cores in a z620. In both examples, the OC was intended to improve the single-thread performance for large models in 3D CAD.

As XTU will not allow the turbo duration and power maximum to be unlocked so as to protect the CPU, the key considerations are: 1. the cooling capacity, and 2. the selection of the proper additional voltage to add in proportion to the overlock. Those are, in fact, the only controls available to E5 Xeons.  

In the example of the E5-1660 v2, as the base frequency on all cores was already 3.9 Ghz, the 300MHz overclock did not impose a significant increase in the heat and stress, but the E5-1680 v2  running at 3.4GHz meant that increasing the all-core clock by 900Mhz is significant, so I added a z420 liquid cooler to the z620.  The liquid cooler worked as the z420 and z620 have fundamentally the same motherboard and use the same BIOS.  The power and speed control  of the liquid cooler plugged into the same connection as the air cooler and the BIOS thermal settings emianed standard. 

In XTU, I settled on 42X- the multiplier setting + 171.875mV additional voltage. With the z420 liquid cooler in place, the CPU idles at 33-35C. If  and extreme cooling solution is installed, as was the done by forum friend Brian1965, using a large triple fan radiator aet in a custom-designed  and fabricated external enclosure and running an open loop (has a fluid reservoir), he was able to overlock an E5-1680 to 4.8GHz on all cores. This required a significant increase in the CPU voltage, but the high perofrmnace cooling solution meant that his CPU could idle below 30C.  Whereas I have had some CPU shut downs under load- very nerve-racking events!- as far as I know Brian1965 has never had instability in the current configuration even under extreme loads of animation rendering.

Another XTU expert here- and the person from whom I and Brian1965 learned about XTU, is forum friend MtothaJ who had very good results with an E5-1650 v2. However, in his quest foro more speed, he eventually bought an X79 motherboard (ASUS P9 X79 WS?) so he was able to control all the OC parameters. 

I hope both Brian1965 and MtothaJ will comment in this thread.

Overclocking is quite addictive and the results can be rewarding, but be very careful and patient.  If you intend to overclock, consider adding a z420 liquid cooler as the first step. I consider that item by far the best $50 I've ever spent on computer gear!

By the way, it appears that various Xeon E5 1600 v3's- the (1650, 1660, and 1680 v3's) may be overclocked using XTU as well.

Let us know what results you obtain.

BambiBoomZ

[OmTatSat]

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@DGroves wrote:

you can not modify the bios's on most (all?) current HP workstations while there may be some models that have bios's that are not checksumed most are and the HP 620 is checksumed, what this meansis that the existing installed bios will check the new bios for any changes via checksumming it's value and if diffrent reject the new bios and prevent it's install i believe the z420 does the same

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this is sadly((

[OmTatSat]

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@BambiBoomZ wrote:

OmTatSat,

@I've used Intel Extreme Tuning Utility to overclock a Xeon E5-1660 v2 in a z420 to all cores @ 4.2GHz and an E5-1680 v2 to 4.3GHz on all 8 cores in a z620. In both examples, the OC was intended to improve the single-thread performance for large models in 3D CAD.

As XTU will not allow the turbo duration and power maximum to be unlocked so as to protect the CPU, the key considerations are: 1. the cooling capacity, and 2. the selection of the proper additional voltage to add in proportion to the overlock. Those are, in fact, the only controls available to E5 Xeons.  

In the example of the E5-1660 v2, as the base frequency on all cores was already 3.9 Ghz, the 300MHz overclock did not impose a significant increase in the heat and stress, but the E5-1680 v2  running at 3.4GHz meant that increasing the all-core clock by 900Mhz is significant, so I added a z420 liquid cooler to the z620.  The liquid cooler worked as the z420 and z620 have fundamentally the same motherboard and use the same BIOS.  The power and speed control  of the liquid cooler plugged into the same connection as the air cooler and the BIOS thermal settings emianed standard. 

In XTU, I settled on 42X- the multiplier setting + 171.875mV additional voltage. With the z420 liquid cooler in place, the CPU idles at 33-35C. If  and extreme cooling solution is installed, as was the done by forum friend Brian1965, using a large triple fan radiator aet in a custom-designed  and fabricated external enclosure and running an open loop (has a fluid reservoir), he was able to overlock an E5-1680 to 4.8GHz on all cores. This required a significant increase in the CPU voltage, but the high perofrmnace cooling solution meant that his CPU could idle below 30C.  Whereas I have had some CPU shut downs under load- very nerve-racking events!- as far as I know Brian1965 has never had instability in the current configuration even under extreme loads of animation rendering.

Another XTU expert here- and the person from whom I and Brian1965 learned about XTU, is forum friend MtothaJ who had very good results with an E5-1650 v2. However, in his quest foro more speed, he eventually bought an X79 motherboard (ASUS P9 X79 WS?) so he was able to control all the OC parameters. 

I hope both Brian1965 and MtothaJ will comment in this thread.

Overclocking is quite addictive and the results can be rewarding, but be very careful and patient.  If you intend to overclock, consider adding a z420 liquid cooler as the first step. I consider that item by far the best $50 I've ever spent on computer gear!

By the way, it appears that various Xeon E5 1600 v3's- the (1650, 1660, and 1680 v3's) may be overclocked using XTU as well.

Let us know what results you obtain.

BambiBoomZ

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So glead to see such wide response, thank you!)

You wrote "he was able to overlock an E5-1680 to 4.8GHz on all cores" but how he can do this without increase TDP power limit??

[BambiBoomZ]

OmTatSat,

The E5-1680 v2 ($1,723 new) from the beginning was rated to overclock to 4.3GHz and had a higher maximum temperature of 85C- most Xeon E5's are rated to 72C. There are a number of examples on Passmark baselines running at 4.4 and 4.6GHz. The E5-1680 v2 was used also in high end Mac Pro's.

As far as I know, the ability of Brian1965 to overclock the E5-1680 v2 up to 4.8GHz is entirely due to the effectiveness of the special liquid cooling system for the CPU, the fast GPU's (Quadro P2000 + GTX 180 Ti), in combination with quite a lot of added voltage- 250mV or even 300+mV - I'm not sure exactly.

HP workstations are quite difficult to modify as to CPU cooler, unless one uses the HP-designed z420 or z820 liquid coolers, so that some users such as Brian1965 have resorted to specially designed external units. For these to work properly,  engineering- electrical and mechnical skills are needed for automatic control, and certainly the design and fabrication needs skill and high precision tools. The enclosure that Brian1965 designed was cut out on a fairly substantial laser.

Here is the z420 liquid cooler in the z620:

It's not a perfect fit with the shroud and precludes adding a second CPU, but is quite effective and very quiet.

Here's an earlier quick idea for an external z620 unit using two standard 140mm closed loop coolers to cool dual CPU's:

May void the warranty!

The design in terms of placement and appearance placement is not elegant but the length of the coolers fixed fluid tubes meant it had to sit directly over the CPU's. As the cooler bodies can not be detached from the sealed loop, this solution requires cutting an access panel in the top so the tubes and cooling bodies could be passed though and threaded to the sockets. By the way, the tubes would not have 90 degree bevelled turns- that was laziness in working out a curved model when I didn't know the precise location of the two CPU's in the z620.  This design could be used for a twin fan, single CPU cooler as well.

On the subject of overclocking, this morning I changed my system to run at 4.1GHz (x41 + 156.25mV)  to take some of the stress off the CPU as I'm not working so intensely on large 3D models. I had a shutdown last week at x43 + 178.875 when the system was not under stress- perhaps running some background program.  This is another example of the criticality of effective and responsive cooling and working out an extremely stable multiplier and voltage setting. It was also running a bit warmer than usual- 46-52C too, well within limits,  but noticeable. The odd feature was that I saw today that XTU had been updated to the current version- something I never did knowingly.  Brian1965 found a very stable version more or less contemporary to the E5-1680 v2 and I thought I was using that one,...  Perhaps MtothaJ can mention the version of XTU that he used with the E5-1650 v2 when it was in a z420.

May I ask what applications you're using and the kind of projects?

BambiBoomZ

[SDH]

Bambi and OmTatSat,

Good to hear from you both again, and I'm looking forward to learning more about this process.... tweaking a bit more out of the HP workstations is worth doing as long as one does not go over the top.  OmTatSat..... you asked me whether the fastest memory that the Z620 version 2 can run is worth it.  The answer is yes, I can tell the difference.  If you have optimized and balanced your hardware then 1866 is the way to go.  I loaded my 8 slots with 4GB sticks, HP used, bought at excellent prices from eBay.  There are others who had HP 1866 ECC buffered 4GB sticks laying around after upgrading to 8Gb sticks.... my gain.

There is a nice thread just found via a Google search for "e5-1680 v2 overclock hp", HERE .  You will recognize some of the people, and some of Brian's advanced Z620 v2 liquid cooling images are there near the bottom:

https://community.hwbot.org/topic/167039-xeon-e5-1680-v2-overclocking/

Used E5-1680 v2 processors can be bought on eBay by searching for its sSpec code (SR1MJ), for about $320.00 USD.  Be sure to buy from a respected and trusted seller.  There are some reports that this processor was/is worth nefarious manipulations by some bad actors off shore, and I have only bought from experienced US sellers so far.  So far I am very happy with the E5-1660 v2 that Bambi advised to get, as the single-processor in my Z620 version 1 that I upgraded with a virgin v2 motherboard bought off eBay for a bit over $100.00 USD (I got lucky).

[Brian1965]

Hi OmTatSat,

First of all, you can overclock a Xeon E5-1680v2 to 4.8GHZ without exceeding the CPU TDP of 130W. The only difference between my Z620 and a stock Z620 is my bespoke liquid cooling solution. I am using XTU as you've already researched, (Kudos to you for doing some searches first before posting your query!), and I am NOT using any other BIOS or OS tweaking. Also, just to clarify, if you are running all the CPU cores simultaneously (at the same time), the maximum CPU clock speed is limited to 3.4GHz (E5-1680v2), regardless of the multiplier setting in XTU.

The total power that the CPU requires at any one time varies depending on the number of CPU cores that are running, its clock speed, and also the CPU temperature. Unfortunately, the electrical resistance of the internal CPU conductors increases as the CPU temperature rises, resulting in a drop in the CPU voltage, (which the CPU adjusts automatically to compensate), but there is also an increase in the current flowing through the circuit. Basic electrical theory states that; Power(P) = Voltage(V) x Current(I). Keeping the CPU cool reduces the electrical resistance in the conductors, allowing the CPU to clock at higher speeds without significantly increasing the current flowing through the CPU, e.g. the CPU requires less power to run at higher clock speeds. However, to significantly increase the CPU clock speed from stock settings, you also need to increase the CPU core voltage slightly. The bottom line is, the better the CPU cooling, the more you can overclock the CPU. The table below also shows the XTU multiplier and additional voltage settings that I am using and corresponding maximum CPU temperature under heavy load (Prime95 stress test for 4 hours).

As you are well aware, adding liquid cooling to the HP Z420/620 chassis is no simple matter and does require a little creativity. It might look a bit extreme, but that is why I am able to push my 1680v2 CPU to 4.8GHz.

Although my system runs stable at 4.8GHz on all cores, I subsequently settled on overclocking at 4.7GHz so as not to over stress the CPU by giving a little headroom. As stated in the table above, this resulted in maximum CPU temperature of only 62°C even under extreme heavy loading for sometimes up to 48hours while rendering in Maya. I also ran the Prime95 stress test for 12hours with absolutely no issues.

[Brian1965]

I have put together my own step by step guide to using XTU which I hope some forum members may find useful. I have tried to pool together all the information I could find on the internet after numerous web searches and many hours of reading.

The main pre-requisites for overclocking a HP Zx20 workstation are;

1) You need a 2013 boot block date motherboard and an E5-1650/60/80 V1, v2 or V3 CPU.

2) BIOS - Ensure PCIe Performance Mode is disabled.

3) BIOS - Ensure that AMT is enabled and also the Watchdog Timer, the BIOS and OS Watchdog Timer settings are set to 5 and 5. NOTE: If AMT is disabled you will not see the Watchdog Timer settings.

4) BIOS - Enable Turbo Mode and ensure the Legacy ACPI CPU Tables are enabled. NOTE: If you need to change multiple BIOS settings then you may need to re-boot a few times until all the settings are accepted.

5) Run a quick virus scan in Windows first to make sure the computer OS is clean.

6) Download and run CCleaner, (the free version is fine). Run the Cleaner and Registry tools listed on the left hand panel to remove any temporary or junk files and fix/remove any corrupt registry keys. This step is extremely important! If this is the first time you have used CCleaner then save a backup of the registry file when prompted before fixing the errors. You will probably see a lot of errors if you haven’t used CCleaner before – this is normal. I also recommend you run CCleaner multiple times as not all registry errors are detected on the first pass, but you don’t need to save another copy of the registry on subsequent passes.

https://www.ccleaner.com/

7) You will also need to download a version of XTU. I have found that some of the more recent versions of XTU don't appear to work to well on my Z620 machine. If you want, or need to try a different version of XTU then run CCleaner after removing the previous version - again, this step is extremely important! (You don’t need to back up the registry file). Re-installing a different version of XTU without running CCleaner will cause XTU to stop running. Here's a public dropbox link to various versions of XTU;

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1jjs5qcx6yh711t/AACRkCMoW8tZcTQHNn--f3Bha?dl=0

😎 Install XTU, (I used version 5.2.0.14), but do not run just yet. (If it asks for a reboot, then reboot the computer).

9) I would now recommend you benchmark your system at this point so that you can see the differences before and after using XTU. A nice piece of software for this is PassMark Performance Test (get v9 - link is at the top of the page);

https://www.passmark.com/download/pt_download.htm

10) Install Performance Test but do not run just yet. Perform a final re-boot of the computer before you launch the Performance Test program for the first time. Under 'Preferences', set the 'Test Duration' to 'Short' and '5 iterations', select the option 'Keep best result' at the bottom of the 'Preferences' window and click OK to save the settings.

11) If you want to monitor the CPU core temperatures, clock speeds and voltages while the Performance Test is running, then download and install CPUID HWMonitor and leave it running on the side of the screen.

https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

12) Now run the full Performance Test benchmark, (now is probably a good time to put the kettle on), and save the results when completed. (If the free version of Performance Test won’t let you save the results, then you can use the Windows ‘Snipping Tool’ to grab screen images for each test category, i.e. Passmark Rating, CPU, 2D, 3D, Memory and Disk. This is now your baseline score.

13) Now to overclocking. Launch XTU and look at the System Information screen, where it states Processor you should be looking to see the text I’ve highlighted in yellow states;

If your text is different, then re-check your BIOS settings or try installing a different version of XTU. If your text matches the above, then continue on.

14) Scroll further down the System Information screen and check your Watchdog settings;

Again, your settings need to match. Watchdog Timer – This exists in 2 elements, the BIOS Watchdog Timer, and the OS Watchdog Timer. Both parts need to be present. If the WT is enabled in the BIOS then Windows should automatically start the Windows OS Watchdog process. In the event that the XTU settings cause the computer to crash or become unstable, it is the Watchdog process that resets XTU back to your system default clock speeds, e.g. safe settings. If you don’t have the Watchdog process running then you could potentially put the computer into an endless re-boot loop = VERY BAD!!! XTU will bring up a warning if you try to OC the computer and it doesn’t detect the Watchdog process – it did for me.

15) Assuming all is well so far, and finally, now to using XTU and overclocking. To be honest, you can’t really break the CPU running XTU but you can reduce its lifespan if you run the CPU at its upper temperature limits over prolonged periods of time, i.e. there are various features in the CPU that will make the CPU shutdown if the temperature or TDP (power limit) gets too high. Hence, the ‘must-have’ Watchdog process needs to be running. It’s just a case of trial and error to see how far you can push the CPU and maintain stability. The lower you keep the CPU temperature, the higher you can increase the settings.

16) Launch XTU and select the Manual Tuning tab on the left and you will notice that most of the settings are greyed out, only the Multipliers and Additional Turbo Voltage settings are available. Personally, I keep all the multiplier settings the same.

17) Now follow the flow chart below;

I would strongly recommend you never let the CPU voltage exceed 1.52v - monitor the CPU voltage in HW Monitor ! ! !

18) Now is the time to compare your latest Performance Test score with your original baseline score. Hopefully, you should see a notable improvement in system performance, particularly with applications that benefit from increased single threaded speeds, e.g. GPU rendering, CAD, video, etc.

[OmTatSat]

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@BambiBoomZ wrote:

May I ask what applications you're using and the kind of projects?

BambiBoomZ

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I appreciate for your effort to this thread, thank you!)

I whant to use Adobe After Effects, and my present PC (e5472@3.2GHz 8GB ram) is too slow for this( So i think time to upgrade)

My budget is very limited(( so i need budget components, that is why i am here now)

Some new research, my seller have new 1650v2 cpu, so we start test it, and it is very cool and consum much less power then previous cpu. New cpu capable to run at 4.3GHz with ~120W power consumption - this is Great!) So TDP limit problem is gone for now, yahoo))

Stepping of first and new cpu is the same, so i wonder how it can be... Also for new tests seller use another motherboard, but z420v2 too, maybe less power consumption achieved by new motherboard and not cpu?