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IanLee73
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Delamination Issue - Latex 360

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Hi,

 

I am having a reoccuring issue with lamination pulling away or "delaminating" from self adhesive when I cut it, especially on solid black. I have run the test print and the medias appear dry. It happens on several different medias (Arlon, Orajet, Avery). I use a Royal Sovereign laminator with Heat Assist. It was recommended to let the prints sit for a few days before cutting into them but it still occurs. HP and the vendor I buy from say they have never heard of anyone else having this issue. 

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Detroit_Sign
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You are not alone, we have recently bought a HP 560 and we are having the same issue.   We have let the print dry in a cabinet with air flow, used heat assist for laminating and still have this issue.  As far as Vendors and HP they know about it, just in denial.

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Druknmonk
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Im having the same problems with my 365, only had the printer for 5 months, Ive been told thats its a profile issue, Ive tried 10 different profiles, 3 different vinyls, and 3 different laminates, all with the same problems, so from my point of view the inks are to blame.

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Detroit_Sign
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HP had us tyry different profiles as well, and we got the same results, I even tried a lower resolution and less passes but it still did the same thing.  We talked to a tech at HP and he admitted to us that the adhesion we are looking for in the 3M 8518 and IJ 180MC10 was unreachable.  We had out HP 560 for about 5 months and recently returned it to HP.  Since we bought it to do wraps and we are a 3M Preffered installer (Owner's Son).  It wouldn't work for us.  WE do have an old L26500 and it works fine, no delamination issues.  The problem I think is in the Optimzer that they came out with in the 300 series and up.

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IanLee73
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I had a L26500 and it was the best. I would have never thought I would want to go back to solvent after using it. After using the 360 I do. HP changed the Black Ink formula a few months back, thats when this issue and another (ghosting/static issue) started for us. I believe it could also have something to do with the Optimizer as well. This machine will also not hit bright color, especially red, without heavy saturation, 130% or above. I was told that was part of my issue, even though an HP tech recommended that I print a heavier saturation a year ago. Unfortunately I am not in the position to return this printer. I have to deal with it. Its a shame.

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Druknmonk
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Ive just has a phone call telling me its got to be profiling problem, so Ive said my machine (365) does its own profiling, we have a profiling engineer coming out to us to see us, Ill let you know how I get on.

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Druknmonk
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UPDATE, Engineer tried different profiles, not much changed, was told the room where the printer is too cold, 15 c, what temperatures are others have in there rooms, anyone lives in a hot country?

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IanLee73
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Humidity levels are important so I am guessing thats why the temp needs to be higher. We keep it around 68 fahrenheit here which is about 20 celsius, sometimes warmer. In fact when the printer is running it gets really warm in the room, they have said its too warm before, if we turn the AC up it sucks all the humidity out of the room. We use a humidifier to keep the humidity levels up. We still get the delamination and "ghosting" issues. We have had a tech out and calls with HP, noone seems to have a clear answer. Just that we must be doing something incorrect but not what that incorrect thing is. A lot of maybe it is this, maybe that. I have tried all their suggestions. The only things that kind of works is print one day, let it dry over night, heat assist laminate and wait about 2 days before cutting into it. Also use medium tac transfer tape if transfer tape is needed. It still can do it but it is lesser. We got a Latex so we should not have this kind of waiting period, we could use a solvent printer and get better color with this kind of wait. Did they offer any other suggestions or solutions? This is all frustrating. We have had the machine 2 years but these issues we have just started a few months ago when the ink formula changed. Strange coincidence. 

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Detroit_Sign
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I don't think there is anything you can really do.   HP had no solutions for us but to pick up the printer.  They told us that the adhesion level beteween the 8518 laminate and IJ180mc10 that we wanted was unacheiveable.   Since we bought our HP L560 to do wraps, it failed.  We now went back to our old L26500 and it works fine, just slow on printing.   As for waiting to laminate, latex inks require heat to dry, according to a 3M bulletin.  WE have treid everything you have and got no good results.

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Druknmonk
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My printer is under warranty they will be told to collect it, I've asked the UK distributor to supply me some printed vinyl that we can laminate to test it, as there saying its the temperature of my works!

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