Z210 won't post

[fakefox]

Hi!

I have done a lot of researching on this problem so this post got a bit long. Please bare with me 🙂

The Specs:

Motherboard: HP Z210 Taroko Rev 1 mainboard (Picture) (Proprietary power connector. Can't use other than HP's own PSU)

CPU: Intel Core i7-2600

RAM: Elpida 4x4GB DDR3 1333MHz

PSU: Delta Electronics DPS-400AB-13A Rev: 02 PSU

HP Z210 Maintenance and Service Guide

About a year ago I got two discontinued HP Z210 workstations from my work. I took them home, stripped down the hardware and threw away the cases. The plan was to build my own custom workstation and a server from the gear. I never got as far as to the workstation, but the server had been up and running for about six months. All the internal hardware was original HP Z210-parts and the case w/front control panel connectors and a bunch of extra harddrives was my own. Now, after being away for the last six months, I've just arrived back home and now the server won't boot up. It seemed completely dead. I haven't done any modifications to it and it hasn't been plugged in to the power grid while I've been gone.

After fiddling around with clearing CMOS, removing battery, removing hardware etc I got "some" response. The system went into some kind of pre-video bootloop. All the fans would spin up for about 1 second, then shut down for a couple of seconds. This would go on forever. I played around some more and then it went into the current state: All fans spin up as normal and then exactly 60 seconds after turning on the system the CPU-fan goes insane and spins up to maximum speed. It stays this way until I turn off the system and all this time I get no video response (I have tried both video card and onboard graphics). As I have tried so many things I'm not quite sure exactly when it went from the bootloop state to the crazy fan state, but as of now I get the crazy fan no matter what I do.

I have tried everything in Tom's Hardware's checklist for faulty systems.

Having stripped down the system, using only PSU, motherboard, RAM and CPU w/fan this is the results I get:

- Both the CPU-, PSU-, and the case-fans (if connected) are spinning

- The light on motherboard and PSU is on

- If I unplug the 4-pin CPU power connector the system beeps 4 times (as it should according to the manual, "Power failure")

- If I remove the CPU it beeps 3 times (as it should, "CPU not installed")

- If I remove all RAM bricks the system does not beep at all. It should beep 5 times, "Pre-video memory error"

Since I have 2 x motherboards, 2 x CPUs and 2 x 4 RAMs I can't get my head around that this could be a hardware fault. All components gives the same results. I have e.g. tried 8 different RAMs in 4 different slots. The only thing I have one of is the PSU, but I can't see that the symptoms indicates a power failure either.

Anyway.. I figured out there could be 4 sources of error:

- Because of the lack of "RAM-beeps" this could be related to the memory. However I can't see that it's likely that both motherboards and all 8 RAM-bricks is faulty.

- Since I have only have one PSU I can't rule out that this is faulty.

- I'm not using the HP Z210 standard front control panel connectors. I have only connected the Power SW, Power Led and HDD Led according to this diagram

- I'm not using the original case. I'm using all the standoffs for the motherboard, but it could be that HP has some funky grounding settings.

The last two are not likely though since the system has been in use before.

Anyone got any clue what this could be?  PSU costs like 80 $ on eBay and I don't even know if that will work.

[Skylarking]

Hi fakefox,

from the "On-button LED hack" post you linked to, Dan_in_WGBU has provided some very good information and some warnings. But what's some fun hacking without risk

Anyway, your issue may be possibly related to the fact that you have not included the front panel connector loom. This loom is always plugged into the P5 mobo connector and supports the on-buttor, hdd and power leds, thermal diode and chassis id... The thermal diode is likely used by the BIOS to determine cooling strategy and hense fan speed... I have no idea how or what the chassis id is used for... I also don'y know how the system may behave with these items missing...

It may possibly be that by ommiting the thermal diode, dispite the system working for some time, the BIOS may now consider you are operating outside allowable temperature and either refuses to boot, or cycles the boot with high fan speed occuring beween booting.

Now, if you still have the original front panel loom, install it on the P5 mobo header and clear CMOS memory (procedure defined on page 152 of your maintenance and services guide). Then try a cold reboot using minimal installed hardware. If this works, then you may need to incorporate the thermal diode and possibly the chassis headers into your new non standard enclosure...

[fakefox]

That sucks! Since the system worked for so long I disposed of the case with the front panel connector. Is this the same as the Front I/O cable assembly (Partnr 645331-001) from this page?

Is there any workaround to see if this is the case? HP spare parts are ridiculously expensive. 95 $ + intl. shipping for this little thing, and I'm not even garantied that this will fix it.

[Skylarking]

fakefox, I guess the lesson is don't chuck away good stuff '

But seriously, if you have no storage space to keep such bits, then try and sell them on eBay and at least get some value out of these bits. That way, if you need to re-purchase a previously disposed of item, it's less painful considering you should have previously made some $ when disposing such bits.

Now doing a quick Google search of "Front I/O cable assembly 645331-001" shows eBay has these assemblies for $24USD as a buy now price, a little cheaper directly from ftgparts.. I can't say 100% if this is the correct I/O assembly but it looks to be the correct part as it includes the USB and control (P5) leads coming out of the I/O box.... Really you can't go wrong considering a few beers will likely cost you more   If your not in the USA, then you may get lumbered with some extra costs as is often the case down under

Anyway, you can be reasonably confident that if both your two systems were not plugged into the wall outlet while you were away, and thus they can't suffer the same fault caused by power or lightning surge, then it's not likely for the same parts to be faulty on both systems, especially if they worked 100% previously...

But as you stated, you only have the one PSU and this could be the cause of the problems as this part couldn't be tested by part substitution... So I would check the green BIST led on the PSU is lit when plugged into the wall outlet as this indicates the PSU is OK. As a further check I would also verify the DC outputs are within limits using a DMM (but as I've not cold powered an unconnected HP PSU, you should do your own research to ensure it is a safe thing to do before blindly pulling out the paperclip trick one uses with standard ATX PSU).

It really comes down to whether you can test the HP PSU to determine if it is indeed faulty or whether the I/O cable "could be" the cause of your problems... I'd go the I/O cable route first as the thermal sensor is a good thing to have in any case (pun intended) and it's likely much cheaper 'try' than a HP PSU...

If you prefer to tinker, Dan even gave you a hint on how to construct a temp sensor yourself (see the link you previously referenced). If so, you only need to buy a transistor, capacitor, some wire and heatsrink tubing... great if you want to tinker but at $25 for the new part, I wouldn't bother

[fakefox]

Yeah, I know. But empty computer cases takes up a lot of space, and I never in my wildest dreams thought that the ugly HP-case would come in handy. Didn't think of the front connectors of course, but in my 15 years of experience I've never had any problems with this. Haven't played much around with proprietary hardware though.. A dearly bought lesson it seems. Anyway..

PSU led is green. Didn't have to worry about the paper clip as the PSU starts automatically when I plug in the power chord. Regardless the Maintenance and Service Guide (page 158) shows the wiring. All rails checks out fine except from the 5Vs, which are dead. As far as I can remember this is normal on newer PSUs (4pin CPU connector is OK)?

I don't feel comfortable with doing much soldering in a server that's staying out of sight in a storage room, so I think I'll stick with eBay this time. Thanks for the tip! With shipping to Norway the price is 63 $. Still sucks to pay this much for a couple of wires, but it's still cheaper than a new motherboard and PSU. Given that it works of course, but I'll take my chances

[Skylarking]

Historically computer PSUs supplied +12V, +5V, +3.3V, -12V and -5V for the needs of the eclectic selection of devices that made up a computer. This meant that over time, the  voltages needed by a mobo and the connected equipment can be a little unclear due to the slow migration to +12V only PSU that is still occuring...

Since some devices may still needs these odd voltages, the mobo may include voltage inverters to provide these feeds if they are not supplied by the PSU itself. However the OEM may also decide to not provide these voltages via the inverters on the mobo which means that certain devices that need them can never work on these systems. Think some old FDD, some HDD, some PCI cards, etc. In other words the OEM mobos may not support some legacy devices... 

For the hacker, the result is that it is a little difficult to know what may work without access to quality documentation. Unfortunately many OEM provide rather poor technical documentation these days, though HP is a little better than Dell in some cases. So if you want to modify a system and include non certified devices, you must do a good level of homework and ensure the device will be supplied with the voltages it needs on the interface it uses...

Now in the case of the Z210, the HP PSU only provides +12V and +5V. Within the HP Z210 maintanenance guide, the +5V rail is listed as pin 1 & 10 of the P1 connector but this is not strictly correct as in my Z210 the PSU provides +5V only on pin 1 while the mobo seems to feed back the +5V to pin 10 of the connector where the SATA power loom then draws its feed from. That is, the wires coming out of the PSU go to the P1 connector which also piggybacks the 4x SATA power connector loom...

Since +5V is used by HDDs and possibly some other devices connected to the mobo, unless HP has designed their mobo to convert the +12V rail to +5V as appropriate, it may be that some hardware may now not be getting the +5V power they need to operate correctly (due to the PSU fault). This may be the cause of your problems...

Odd as to why you actually get the green BIST led lit which indicates the PSU is OK when the PSU is indeed faulty and can't supply +5V but is anyones guess.  So consider the lack of +5V as an indication of a faulty PSU and the root cause of your problems...

When I was living in Olso in the late 80's, the first beer i bought cost me $10 but i would expect they cost somewhat more than that now. So chalk up the $62 as a learning excercise at the cost of a few beers and consider an eBay PSU if the I/O assembly does not fix the uissue (which i now suspect it wont)...

[fakefox]

Price of beer is still the same, only the beer got much smaller

When I tested the rails yesterday that was from a cold power of the PSU. If I connect the PSU the the motherboard and then switch on the power I actually get 5V from pin 1 and 10. The 10th pin goes only to the (3x) SATA connetor in my case too. So all rails seems to be fine. Does this mean the PSU is ok after all? Or am I supposed to get the 5 Vs when the PSU is cold powered too?

[Skylarking]

fakefox, i have no idea how the HP PSU comes to life, only that athe rear green PSU led means all should be OK.

On an ATX PSU, pin-8 on the main connector indicates when all voltages are all ok via "ps-ok" signal but HP PSU does not use such a mechanism... 

Anyway, how did it go with getting your system up and running? What was the problem in the end, did you manage to fix it?

[fakefox]

I took the chance and ordered the front control panel connectors two weeks ago, as we discussed earlier in the post, so I haven't done anything else while waiting. It finally arrived today and sadly it is not what I needed. What I need is the Power On/Off switch circuit assembly (645332-001) and not the Front I/O cable assembly (645331-001). I can't believe I missed this! The difference can clearly be seen here.

As you can see from this image the front control panel connectors fits everything but the Switch/LED I/O.

So now I'm thinking.. Instead of making my own thermal diode (from the On-button LED hack-post), wouldn't a Thermal Sensor like this be of the same use?

[Skylarking]

Argh, i didn't pick it up either as i assumed the front USB/FW/AUDIO harness included the ON button...

Anyway the On-button LED hack-post indicates how to make a thermal sensor for the XW4400. If you notice, the xw4400 front pannel connector lists "Thermal+" and "Thermal #" as the appropriate pins to connect the thermal sensor to, which is itself defined in the schematic. Later in the post, the z210 connector indicates that "Thermal _P" and "Thermal _N" are the appropriate pins for the thermal sensor so its likely the same BUT there is no explicit statement that the schematic for the xw4400 thermal sensor will indeed work in a Z210. It may work but in the absence of a firm statement from someone who has access knows, it may also cause damage....

As such some caution is needed as the result may be that the sensor could work but still provide a wrong measurement with fans spinning at the wrong speed for the real temps occuring which could then damage the system. I  also have no idea how one calibartes the thermal sensor shown in the schemetics. Further using the 20" thermal sensor may work if it's construction is appropriate but you won't know until you buy it and have the technical skills to examine it but again you only have the thermal sensor schematics from the xw4400 to compare to which may be wrong.

As such it's much simpler to buy the correct HP part if you can find it for a reasonable price... And if your lucky, maybe you can return the wrong part to your supplier and get credit towards the correct part if he has them...

PS: I like the repair link that shows the firewire connector actually exists on the Z210 mobo (step 6) whereas my mobo does not have the parts installed (though places for the connector and other needed components exist but are not populated on my mobo).