Z420: E5-1650 v1 vs E5-1650 v2

[MtothaJ]

The title say it all really - is it worth upgrading from E5-1650 v1 to E5-1650 v2?

I would like ideally a 1660 v2 but these seem to be generally unavailable and when they appear they are prohibitedly expensive (maybe Ryzen and upcoming X299 will casue prices to fall but not sure).

I have 1866mhz RAM so going to the v2 would allwo me to use this, which is an additional advantage, but how about the actual  CPU? WIll I see any increase in performance in games / general home use?

The price for the v2 CPU would be c.a 200 EUR minus whatever I can get by selling my v1 chip (maybe 80 EUR?).

Thoughts ?

[karim_me]

Hello,

You can check the difference between the v1 and v2 in the below links:

V1

V2

All The Best

[MtothaJ]

I am famiiliar with the specs, however I am more interested in real world performance in particular with regard to the forseen potential cost of the upgrade.

[karim_me]

Hello,

I think that the real performances depend on the others hardware component, Bios configuration and the software that will be executed on the station.

Some benchmark sites can help you:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net

http://cpuboss.com/

https://www.futuremark.com/

All the best

[MtothaJ]

---

@MtothaJ wrote:

The title say it all really - is it worth upgrading from E5-1650 v1 to E5-1650 v2?

I would like ideally a 1660 v2 but these seem to be generally unavailable and when they appear they are prohibitedly expensive (maybe Ryzen and upcoming X299 will casue prices to fall but not sure).

I have 1866mhz RAM so going to the v2 would allwo me to use this, which is an additional advantage, but how about the actual  CPU? WIll I see any increase in performance in games / general home use?

The price for the v2 CPU would be c.a 200 EUR minus whatever I can get by selling my v1 chip (maybe 80 EUR?).

Thoughts ?

---

I guess I will soon find out whether it was worth it or not, since I just placed an order for a E5-1650 v2.

I got the CPU for c.a. 190 EUR incl postage and I am figuring I will get at least 50-80 EUR for the current E5-1650 so this will make the overall cost lower.

I will report back once I recieve and install the CPU.

I am looking to upgrade to X299 when this comes out, but since its still some time away and I do not want to be a beta tester / early adopter, I see this as an in between upgrade for the next 1 year or so, while the situation clarifies in the CPU / motherboard market.

[MtothaJ]

Recieved the E5-1650 v2 processor today and proceeded with the upgrade from the E5-1650 (v1).

Everything went smothly and the system booted up no problem, with CPU and memory speed updated in bios. I used Thermal Grissly Kryonaut thermal paste on the new CPU; even if you are not upgrading the CPU I suggest changing the thermal past once every few years, since the paste on the old CPU was hard and crumbly and more likely than not not doing its job.

Anyway, I ran a few benchmarks just prior to removing the old CPU and right after the new one was installed. Since a number of users here use Passmark I will post the results below. Just for clarification the rest of the config was the same in both test i.e.

Xeon E5-1650 v1 (6C/12T (3.2-3.8Ghz) and afterwards Xeon E5-1650 v2 6C/12T (3.5-3.9Ghz)
64GB RAM 1866 Mhz ECC REG (running at 1600mhz in case of E5-1650 v1)
Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming
Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB SSD / WD Blue 1TB HDD

E5-1650 v1 config results:

E5-1650 v2 config results:

So talking numbers here we have:

- CPU performance increase of c.a. 11.3%

- RAM performance increase of c.a. 9.8%

- Overall system performance increase of c.a. 8.7%

So in general going by the benchmark the upgrade gives a c.a. 10% increase in performance.

[BambiBoomZ]

Mtothal,

Well done.     

The E5-1650 series is one of Intel's greatest gifts to the workstation world- from the beginning a very good performer at a semi-reasonable price.  As I've been having some trouble with a very complex 3D model, I've thought about a replacement system with a better single-thread performance.  The z420 No. 2 (current CPU Mark =14441) is rated in single-thread at 2193. One of the candidates is the E5-1650 v4 (6C@ 3.6/4.0) having a Passmark single thread rating up to ~2500. I've been looking at a Ryzen 7 solution, but going from 40 PCIe to 24, the general sense of being less substantial, and the extremly variable results is a concern. I don't think I'd like a motherboard with a miniature coffin and LED lights on it( ASRock Fatality), but I admire the attempt to design funny motherboards. I'm waiting for Mercedes-Benz to introduce comic fuel injectors with clown hats and flashing lights shaped like daisies.

Coincidentally,  I'm currently converting the z620 to E5-v2- capable.  There is a seller on eBahhh with new z620 case /chassis/ power supplies for $220, plus I've bought a used z620 motherboard - 708614-001 is the E5-v2 part number, CPU cooler, and 64GB of HP-branded DDR3-1866 ECC registered. Total cost so far is $605. 

Initially, this will be set up using the two E5-2690's, Quadro K2200 + Tesla M2090, Samsung 850 Evo, Seagate  Constellation ES.3 from the current z620, but the goal eventually is to have a pair of E5-2667 v2's (8C@ 3.3/3.4GHz), or possibly a single E5-1680 v2 (8-core@ 3.0/3.9GHz). By the way, a single CPU has a higher single-thread performance on the same system.  I tested the z620 with a single E5-2690 recently and the single-thread mark improved from 1913 with two processors to 2020 with a single.

I see that we are next door neighbors on Passmark. The office z420 No. 2 is the E5-1660 v2 system next down the ratings list- 5581.5 to your 5586.9. I shall be giving you a z420 contest as next week as the Quadro P2000 5GB will arrive.  The P2000 ($460) is quite remarkable with tests showing performance better than Quadro M4000 ($850) and in some tests better than M5000 ($1,800).

Cheers,

BambiBoomZ

[MtothaJ]

---

@BambiBoomZ wrote:

Mtothal,

Well done.     

The E5-1650 series is one of Intel's greatest gifts to the workstation world- from the beginning a very good performer at a semi-reasonable price.  As I've been having some trouble with a very complex 3D model, I've thought about a replacement system with a better single-thread performance.  The z420 No. 2 (current CPU Mark =14441) is rated in single-thread at 2193. One of the candidates is the E5-1650 v4 (6C@ 3.6/4.0) having a Passmark single thread rating up to ~2500. I've been looking at a Ryzen 7 solution, but going from 40 PCIe to 24, the general sense of being less substantial, and the extremly variable results is a concern. I don't think I'd like a motherboard with a miniature coffin and LED lights on it( ASRock Fatality), but I admire the attempt to design funny motherboards. I'm waiting for Mercedes-Benz to introduce comic fuel injectors with clown hats and flashing lights shaped like daisies.

Coincidentally,  I'm currently converting the z620 to E5-v2- capable.  There is a seller on eBahhh with new z620 case /chassis/ power supplies for $220, plus I've bought a used z620 motherboard - 708614-001 is the E5-v2 part number, CPU cooler, and 64GB of HP-branded DDR3-1866 ECC registered. Total cost so far is $605. 

Initially, this will be set up using the two E5-2690's, Quadro K2200 + Tesla M2090, Samsung 850 Evo, Seagate  Constellation ES.3 from the current z620, but the goal eventually is to have a pair of E5-2667 v2's (8C@ 3.3/3.4GHz), or possibly a single E5-1680 v2 (8-core@ 3.0/3.9GHz). By the way, a single CPU has a higher single-thread performance on the same system.  I tested the z620 with a single E5-2690 recently and the single-thread mark improved from 1913 with two processors to 2020 with a single.

I see that we are next door neighbors on Passmark. The office z420 No. 2 is the E5-1660 v2 system next down the ratings list- 5581.5 to your 5586.9. I shall be giving you a z420 contest as next week as the Quadro P2000 5GB will arrive.  The P2000 ($460) is quite remarkable with tests showing performance better than Quadro M4000 ($850) and in some tests better than M5000 ($1,800).

Cheers,

BambiBoomZ

---

BambiBoomZ, thanks for your response, also sent you a PM.

With regard to my Z420 config, I will probably be adding a few bits and pieces going forward, but nothing that would significantly impact performance. I would like a decent sound card and also to change the mechanical 1TB HDD for a SATA3 Samsung 850 EVO SSD (prices are still pretty high for such capacities however). Also looking at the HP liquid cooler, but that is about all I am planning to do with this machine... although CPU wise I am intrigued by the E5-2687W v2 😉

With regard to various options going forward:

- X99 / C612 - while its true that it is up for replacement soon, I still consider this to be one of the better options. The platform has matured, any infancy issues are now resolved and performance is solid. It might be a good idea to pick up a last of the line quality board, since given what has happened to X79 board prices these may well also go up over time. I like the Asus WS (Workstation) line, there are 1 and 2 socket boards available and they seem to offer a lot of features, tweaking options and the emphasis is on build quality over shiny LEDs.

- With Ryzen, I would wait for the professional / server platform to come out, with more PCIe lanes, memory slots et - there is already news out there that this is on the way. And at the moment there still seems to be a number of bios / performance related issues with the consumer platform which are in the process of being resolved. Performance seems to be on Broadwell E level, which is no bad thing given the competitive pricing.

- X299 - I guess this is still at least a few months away, and it will probably be a few years since the second batch of CPU / motherboards are released which really show what this platform is capable of.

I would also look at the HP Z840 - with the above developments, prices esp. for lightly used machines will no doubt be falling over the course of this year and beyond.

[BambiBoomZ]

MtothaJ,

Soundcard:  It seems a workstation is perpetually in a state of change.  I'm also looking for a new sound card for z420 No.2.  For years I've used an M-Audio 192 "Audiophile" which is a PCI duplex recording card with MIDI I/O.  For too many years it seems.  When I added the Tesla M2090 to the z620, the double height Tesla covered the PCI slot.  After a bit of research I bought a used Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium  ($31) which is 7.1 and more importantly- PCIe x1. I'm curious as to how everyone except myself can organize speaker placement for 7.1.

The sound quality was so superior to the elderly M-Audio, the z420 is having a new sound card soon. I don't use surround (speaker/amplifier system is 2.1 Logitech Z2300 ) and there are almost no 2-Channel cards available.   The Creative X-FI series is recommended,  but if you have a very good amplifier/ speaker system, you might consider a SP/DIF input external DAC as those have higher quality opamps and are out of the electrical maelstrom inside the computer.  I recommend the Logitech 2.1 systems too particularily the models having the wired remote control as it has an on/off and volume control that can be just next to the keyboard. The z2300 also adds a subwoofer control and headphone jack on the remote.

CPU: The Xeon E5-2687w v2 is another great Xeon.  In fact, I chose the E5-1660 v2 as it is, in effect, the 6-core version of it.  However, be aware that  the  E5-2687w v2 is 150W and I don't see any z420's or z620 using it- the socket doesn't support it.  This is the reason for the E5-2667 v2 which is 3.3 /4.0Ghz and 140W.  That's -100MHz base clock rate,  but that's not significant. The E5-2667 v2  is a newer design than the E5-2687w v2 and on Passmark has a higher single-thread rating.

Platform:  In my z420 replacement schemes, a Xeon E5-1650 v4 / X99 basis was prominent  as X99 seems to do everything well: high CPU performance and more USB and SATA.  But, I'm still on the fence whether to have the 3D modeling system be i7-7700K and the z620 the compute system. It's a fuss really to go between two systems, so having the z620 with a single E5-2667 v2 as the single system is an attractive solution.

Yes, LGA2011-3 is going to reincarnate into LGA2066 in August or thereabouts.  It's good to hear that AMD  is working on a Ryzen workstation platform, and will be sorting the troubles with the initial release.  However, just as for the E5- v2's, the first version of complex components is often not a wise choice and I for one am not jumping to either Ryzen or LGA2066 for at least two years. 

Disappointment: The z420 rating contest is delayed as my Quadro P2000 order was cancelled. Oversold. One would think that Dell would have a computer around the back that told them how many were in stock.

Cheers,

BambiBoomZ

[MtothaJ]

Thanks for a heads up on the X-Fi Titanium.  I may just pick one up myself. What is reassuring is that this card was an OEM HP option for the Z420 (part no. 493346-001) and this gives additional peace of mind  on the compatibility side. I have previously tried a legacy PCI Asus Xonar DG - sound quality was good, but driver support under Win10 was rather poor, and the card made the Z420 give off a buzzing / whinning sound when in the machie. Needless to say, it was returned and I went back to using stock audio.

As for the the E5-2687W v2, my understanding is that socket wise and TDP wise our Z420 should be fine. Bear in mind that the E5-2687W v1 was a factory HP option - it is in the v1 quickspecs for the machine and that CPU was also 150W. The only caveat is that HP state that the liquid cooling solution is required in the case of that CPU. Looking at the HP liquid cooling solution I note that this has an additional fan which blows air over the power phase / VRM section of the board.

In any case the E5-2687W v2 is still rather pricy, than again it gives the option to purchase another one some time down the line and use it in a dual CPU config in eg a Z820, something  which is obviously not possible with the E5-16xx chips.

With regard to Z270 / i7 7700k this is undoubtably the best CPU for single threaded workloads at the moment. That said from what I have read deliding / replacing the thermal compound under the lid is required to really be able to benefit from the 5.0ghz overclocked speeds. There is also the matter of limited future upgradeability, since you are essentially stuck with this CPU going forward and platform wise the setup also has its limitations (PCIe lanes, memory slots).

The new Pascal based Quadro GPU's are absolutely killer cards, and what is interesting is that many of them do as good if not better job for gaming when compared to their respective GTX equivilants. I will be sticking with the GTX1070 for the time being since I am only using a 1080p display (144hz however) and this seems like an optimal choice. If however for whatever reason I was to upgrade then most likely a 1080ti would be on the cards (no pun intended 😉 ).