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02-17-2021 01:19 AM
Are you using XTU or Throttlestop?
Undervolting by 110mv should be fine, but also on the edge of what the cpu can handle without becoming unstable in certain applications. I went with 100mv and have seen improvements in cinebench scores compared to stock settings. Undervolting is actually performance enhancing most of the time, while still reducing heat and energy consumption. There is no reason not to do it, as long as you do it step by step and don't just jam the slider down by 100mv. CPUs are not created equally, which is why motherboards usually give the cpu a little headroom of voltage to make sure the cpu has what it needs. Therefor most cpus can handle at least 50mv less voltage and in some cases even more.
You should also set Turbo Boost Long Power Max (PL1) to 125W. By default HP has this set to 170W, which is unnessecary and only leads to thermal throttling and therefor lower performance.
You should also look into undervolting your graphics card (GPU). Just google MSI Afterburner and its application. There are several good youtube tutorials on how to do it. The benefit of undervolting your GPU is simple: It can maintain it's clock and will be more consistent when it comes to performance. Just like CPUs these days GPUs make use of a clock boost technology. The rtx 3090 HP uses can go up to 2000 Mhz, but I can't maintain 2000 Mhz for very long. Just run MSI Afterburner overlay in the background while doing a 3d mark benchmark. You will see that the clock jumps all over the place. The goal of undervolting is to find a stable core clock that can be maintained all the time. When you achieve that, even a lower clock speed like 1890 Mhz will net you better performance than the stock settings. Consistensy is king. I improved my 3mark settings by about 500 points with undervolting my GPU and micro stuttering in games is gone for good. You can set a custom fan curve while you're at it. That will result in a quieter GPU fan.
As for the 85c during gaming: I am afraid there is not much you can do about it unless you want to disable Turbo Boost or set PL2 to something lower than 250W. Both "solutions" will lower your temperatures but will also lower your performance. In the end it's a numbers game and you have to find the middle ground of what you're comfortable with.
The only permanent solution is a case swap. However, I would strongly advise against this step if you haven't done anything like this before. It is quite the hassle with the 30L. The CPU cooler backplate is glued to the backside of the motherboard by some kind of adhesive. You would need to pry it loose very carefully and there is a good chance you will damage the motherboard while doing so. I have no earthly idea why HP would do such a thing, because from an engineering standpoint there is no good reason to glue the backplate to the motherboard. I can only image they did not want anyone to strip the case for parts like I did.
You might argue, that Intel specifications have tjmax for these cpus at 100c. And that high 80s under load is not that big of a deal because it is "well within its operating envelope". I have several problems with that statement:
- The longevity of a cpu is lessened when it runs at high temperatures all the time. This one is debateable since I don't have any hard facts to link. But I think it is easy to argue this nonetheless.
- The longevity of the fans is at risk when they run at 100% all the time.
- The cpu thermal throttles itself when it reaches high temperatures. You can easily witness this when using hwinfo64 and run a cpu intensive game like Battlefield V. It has to clock itself down by lowering the multiplier on each core. Less clock means less perfomance.
- To keep the cpu below 90c the fan needs to run at 100% all the time. And it gets really loud. And by loud I mean hair dryer / vacuum cleaner levels of loud. It gets so loud that I can clearly hear it through my noise cancelling headset.
- Right now it is winter in the where I live. That means -5/+5 degrees outside and about 20c inside. In the summer it can get up to 35c outside and about the same or even more inside. I dread to see the temperatures of a stock i9 10850k 30L cooling solution during a hot summer.
02-17-2021 07:46 PM
@pac_man im using Throttlestop and ya 110 has been stable for me for about a week which is great! I also dropped the gpu option in there by -50 to start which i *believeee* is the same as in afterburner (when i check hwmonitor the -50 offset shows as expected on the gpu so i think its working).
Thanks for the advice about dropping the wattage will definitely look into that!
Regarding the case I have read similar things unfortunately, another option i was looking into is replacing the cooler but from what I understand that still requires taking off that backplate soo its kind of a lose lose. Its a bit of a shame having some issues with it given the price point but hey, thats what I get for going prebuilt I suppose. On the bright side through this whole process I have learned a ton about the guts of computers in general which is valuable knowledge, but definitely wish there was more to be done here. I may need to go the route of just not fully utilizing the CPU as mentioned, but I am glad at least with the suggestions it sticks in the high 70/low 80s range vs the 90s prior.
02-18-2021 12:29 AM
If you want to replace the cooler you will have to do almost all of the steps you would do if you were to swap the case. Disconnect the PSU, extract the GPU and motherboard and then get rid of the glued on backplate. The reason for this is, that a new cpu cooler would also use a different backplate.
Anyhow, the only coolers that would fit are a different 120mm AIO or a Noctua U9S. Both solutions might work, but I haven't seen anything online to support such a claim. In fact Noctua themselves only recommend the U9S up to 240W TDP and state on their website, that the U9S leaves little to no headroom when paired with an i9 10850k. It would really suck to go through all the trouble of replacing the cooler only to find out that the results are subpar.
As for undervolting the GPU: I haven't used Throttlestop for that yet, so I can't really compare the two options. But if Throttlestop only allows to set a voltage offset, I would try MSI Afterburner instead. Afterburner has a function called "oc scanner". That little program will go through all voltage settings for different clockspeeds by itself and present you with a voltage curve as a result. You can then set your own voltage curve for specific clock speeds. This is preferable to setting an arbitrary offset via Thottlestop, because it gives you an overview of clock speeds that can be maintained at certain voltage outputs. And that will give you the stability I mentioned in my earlier posting. Furthermore MSI Afterburner has a very nice Overlay function to display certain information like temperatures and clock speeds in game, which is very useful if you only have one monitor. Just be sure to download the latest beta version of MSI Afterburner, because only that version supports rtx 3000 cards as far as I know.
02-19-2021 02:12 AM
I have i7 10700k and RTX 3080 build and i can tell this pc gets really hot. I tested cinebench for few seconds and it gets up to 95-97c instantly. So i removed the AIO to check the thermal paste and oh boy. What a **bleep** mess, it was so much thermal paste that it has spilled over down to the sides of the IHS. So i cleaned it up and used noctua nt-h1. I put a little circle in the middle and then installed the AIO again. Now instead of going up to 95-97c directly it now goes up to 87c. So check the thermal paste, that could be the issue. They are using to much thermal paste.
02-22-2021 02:03 AM
Thanks for the additional information thats great, I havent tried that yet but i do have thermal paste so it should be possible. To just reapply the thermal paste would it require me to remove the motherboard? I am inferring no but am curious as I have read that replacing the cooler requires doing that b/c of the back bracket, but I would imagine reapllying thermal paste and sticking it back on is just removing some screws and then putting them back in.
For those interested in my adventures with this, I bought a couple fans in the hopes of improving things. I bought two ml120s, so far I have installed 1 on the bottom of the case by putting a y splitter in the header that the front fan was connected to and then connecting the front fan + the bottom ml120 to it. Plan is to replace the front fan as well but have not gotten to it yet. I also got a noctua A9 pwm 92mm fan and replaced the rear exhaust fan with it. I would say the results are...mediocre at best, I was really hoping mainly the additional bottom fan (intake) would make at least a few degrees difference after reading some other threads/logical thinking of more air in = cooler components, but honestly the results have been like maybeeee 2 degrees, at times im not even sure if its not even that and its wishful thinking.
The next thing I may try is instead of replacing the front fan installing the second 120mm above the gpu on the right, theres a youtube video somewhere (cant find it at the moment) where the person shifted the cables around up there and taped on a fan there/plugged it in with a fan controller, and in addition to the bottom fan they said it made a large difference so may be something worth trying.
Other than that though, I cant say it was a rousing success although it was still a great learning experience to make my first minor mods and see them actually work, just wish it had more of an impact.
What i have ended up doing for now in addition to that is:
1) undervolted the gpu (thanks for that advice!) using throttlestop to around 1920 at 900v max, and has been running stable under a few stress tests and a 2 hour cpunk play session.
2) Again using throttlestop, instead of disabling turbo I went into the fivr and reduced the turbo ratio limits for the first 4 cores by like 8 (was at 53 now at 45), and in the tpl changed long power to 125 and the short power to 200. The benefit of doing this IMO rather than turboboost disable is i found much more control, as with turboboost disable it drops you to 3.6 ghz which essentially is the ghz to my understanding of a processor like yearsssss behind this one. With these changes, my cpu is now running around 4.5ghz on each core rather than needing to drop all the way to 3.6
With this setup (and custom fan curve for gpu), my gpu temps while playing cyberpunk at 1440p ray trace ultra hitting around 65 fps stays between 68-70 C, and my cpu sits around 68-74 C, so im still getting solid gameplay along with a much cooler and quieter computer, so I am happy about that.
TLDR, is it a bummer that I needed to drop from 4.8 ghz to 4.5 to get to this point, yes, but it seems to be doing the trick so far, ideally someday I will want to be able to really get this thing cooking by getting it into a better case/bigger cooler, but thats just something im not super comfortable doing right now, so all things considered im pretty happy with the results.
02-22-2021 06:23 AM
No, you don't have to remove the motherboard to re-paste the CPU, it's an easy process. As for the rest of the fan mods, as I mentioned before, no mater what fans do you add, the case just not have good enough ventilation, those fans need volume and unobstructed supply of air. I wish that HP can take a not from Lenovo's playbook, I recently got one of their Legion towers and it is impressive what they have done, its the first prebuilt that I personally don't have anything to modify in order to improve performance or airflow, but maybe in a few years HP will do something about it, for now, transferring the internals to another case and upgrading the AIO are the only real solutions to me.
02-22-2021 06:07 PM
for sure that makes sense, ill stick with the 4.5 ghz for the moment and if I start having problems and/or get bold i will swap into a different case with at least a 240mm aio. Good news is if i do that Ive got enough fans to stack up a well ventilated case pretty well haha so at least that expense will be covered, thanks again!
02-22-2021 07:26 PM
one final question on my end i was considering, I know the replacement wouldnt change temps much if at all but wondering if it would still make sense to potentially replace the top fan with the ml120 https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Premium-Magnetic-Levitation-2-Pack/dp/B01G5I6MRK for pure noise improvement.
If so i could probably up my ghz a bit more and be ok with letting the computer hit into the lower 80s while gaming, but before the noise that top fan would generate was just too much. It says ml120 would have 35db, the top fan in mine currently is a fan with black blades but theres no like logo or markers on it so im not really sure what it is (assuming its another cooler master that came with the 12mm aio). Probably wouldnt be too difficult to just test it but if anyone has a quick answer before i open it back up that would be great!
02-23-2021 12:27 AM
To be honest I can only speculate on that. On the Corsair website the fan is listed with 37db, but it does not say at what rpm that measurement was taken. According to the tech specs it can go up to 2400rpm. I kind of doubt it would stay at 37db at that speed but I might be wrong. This thing was designed as a case fan and not as a cpu fan, I think. That means it is geared towards lower rpms, especially if it were to be placed at the top of a case. The Cooler Master AIO of the 30L sets the fan to 100% rpm at times of high temperetarues. Without knowing how much rpm the stock fan does at that time it is hard to predict the outcome of a fan switch.