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I agree with both of you.  However, HP legally (as of this moment) has no obligation to FIX the problem.  You and I know there is a big difference between the moral thing to do and the legal thing to do.  HP is choosing the legal thing to do because it's going to cost them millions to do the moral thing.  Now look, you can blame them all you want (and I do).   However, if you want your laptop fixed, you'll need to compramise.  I can understand if you're not willing to do this, but in the meantime you won't get anything fixed.  It may be months (if ever) before NVDIA or HP admits to using substandard parts in their laptops. 

I mean lets face it.  You advertise a Gaming Laptop and there are people that will play games on it till it catches on fire.  There just isn't enough cooling in the laptop and the glue that holds the GPU to the graphics card is substandard.  It's impossible to make a laptop that will hold up under those conditions forever.  Instead they chose to make a laptop that would hold up till after the warranty expired.  I'm sure lab tests were conducted that prove this.

 

Bottom line.  HP sold a substandard laptop to you that was not equipped for your gaming.  They new it or found out rather quickly.  They have NO legal obligation to fix the problem.  So you have to compramise (politely).. 

 

You and I wish NVIDIA and HP will do the right thing... but it isn't going to happen.  File a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission because HP has violated the Sales of Good Faith Act.  Other than that, suck up your pride and reach a compramise with HP. 

 

My only regret is when I do send this computer in, they're going to take the motherboard and defective graphics card and I will no longer have a case  with the FTC.

 

 

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Message 452 of 1,273
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I don't agree that we should pay a cent for repair not to mention the fact that they will just put another faulty chipset in anyway so really they are using this to make more money. Bottom line is, legally, yes they do have an obligation to fix the problem. They were aware of the issue since jump and yet they manufacture crap anyway and still sell it. I don't get how anyone can possibly see that they have the right to ask for more money from us after some of us already put of the 2Gs+ for the system that is expected to work. This is ridiculous and if we just sit back and take it then they will get away with it, its not about legal or moral, its about running a business, and now is not the time to be pissing off customers. What it comes down to is this, what they are doing is a crime, its not right and I refuse to let them screw me out of more money when this is clearly the fault of both companies. As for the gaming conditions, if the machine wasn't designed to handle gaming then there should be a warning printed somewhere that says you can only use this laptop to play solitaire and it shouldnt be advertised as an "Entertainment Notebook"
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Message 453 of 1,273
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@thereishope wrote:

I agree with both of you.  However, HP legally (as of this moment) has no obligation to FIX the problem.  You and I know there is a big difference between the moral thing to do and the legal thing to do.  HP is choosing the legal thing to do because it's going to cost them millions to do the moral thing.  Now look, you can blame them all you want (and I do).   However, if you want your laptop fixed, you'll need to compramise.  I can understand if you're not willing to do this, but in the meantime you won't get anything fixed.  It may be months (if ever) before NVDIA or HP admits to using substandard parts in their laptops. 

I mean lets face it.  You advertise a Gaming Laptop and there are people that will play games on it till it catches on fire.  There just isn't enough cooling in the laptop and the glue that holds the GPU to the graphics card is substandard.  It's impossible to make a laptop that will hold up under those conditions forever.  Instead they chose to make a laptop that would hold up till after the warranty expired.  I'm sure lab tests were conducted that prove this.

 

Bottom line.  HP sold a substandard laptop to you that was not equipped for your gaming.  They new it or found out rather quickly.  They have NO legal obligation to fix the problem.  So you have to compramise (politely).. 

 

You and I wish NVIDIA and HP will do the right thing... but it isn't going to happen.  File a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission because HP has violated the Sales of Good Faith Act.  Other than that, suck up your pride and reach a compramise with HP. 

 

My only regret is when I do send this computer in, they're going to take the motherboard and defective graphics card and I will no longer have a case  with the FTC.

 

 


Nvidia put aside 196 million to fix the issues, all HP has to do is say that need $$ this amount to fix this many laptops, then they get to choose which ones get fixed and then they get to keep the rest, good going on thier part, no way will they get any more of my money.

 

Just my .00 cents, because as I said, no more of my money.

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Message 454 of 1,273
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there is no fix for these laptops.they offer a temp repair that will fail.only whay to make it right is a recall and replacment with a laptop that works.paying any money for a defective part is foolish.
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Message 455 of 1,273
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Thereishope,

 

You fit right in to this progressive society by accepting an inadequate solution because of an invalid thought that HP "has no obligation to fix an out of warranty" product. Manufacturers are successfully sued every day for products that fail decades after manufacture. Products that had no warranty in the first place. Even products that have changed hands several times since the original owner.

 

But, that isn't even the case here. HP, and Nvidia, have admitted that this particular chip set is defective. They have further validated that admission by repairing, free of charge, OUT OF WARRANTYunits that have failed whose only common failure point is the Nvidia 8600M GT chipset. Further validation of the defectiveness of that part is that it has failed universally and equally catastrophically in all brands of computers. Both Dell and Apple are repairing out of warranty computers that fail these Nvidia parts.

 

What compounds this problem is that HP was already having significant problems with previous model numbers in which they had installed this Nvidia chip set, but they continued to manufacture new products installing these known defective parts.They intentionally built computers with KNOWN DEFECTIVE PARTS. That puts it in a different category than just "out of warranty" and puts HP in a legal bind.

 

As for the FTC, whether you have the defective computer in your hands of not, if they follow up with you, you can provide all the supporting literature, much of it referenced in this HP Support Forum, showing that the problem is real and WELL documented. That should be adequate for initiation of investigation.

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OK. Still I am sending my laptop in for the "quick fix" because I want a working laptop and don't want to wait for the recall if there ever is one.  Do you think I should ask my case manager for them to install the NVIDIA 8400 graphics card instead ?
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First, it isn't a "graphics card." It is a set of chips mounted directly, via surface contact soldering, on the motherboard. The contact solder pad layout is configured to make proper electrical contact with only that 8600M GT chip set. No other chip can be substituted. It isn't like a desktop computer motherboard with a slot into which you may install different graphics cards. Only one motherboard fits a particular case and only one chip set fits that motherboard. There is great likelihood that the "repair" will not last and then you will be out not only the original cost of the computer, but the additional cost of the repair. Are they going to offer you an additional one year warranty?

 

We are likely all in the same boat in that the HP "fix" uses the same original parts, so a duplicate failure is down the road. At least an extended/enhanced warrant repair doesn't take additional money out of our pockets. BTW, if you are dependent on this computer, if I were you, I would be lining up a replacement for when the repaired unit fails...and I would pick a brand that has a reputation for real customer service support. I hear that Alienware is good.

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Message 458 of 1,273
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Could you replace the whole motherboard with a new graphics chip set that works.
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Message 459 of 1,273
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Pacs,

 

From my previous post: "Only one motherboard fits a particular case and only one chip set fits that motherboard." 

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Message 460 of 1,273
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Understand now. HP should offer full credit for the defective units with the purchase of another HP.
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