06-11-2009 04:08 PM
Nyteshade, let me start by saying that I am not an HP fanboy, nor am I blinded by product loyalty. However, you are making a few assumptions that I don't think you really have the knowledge to make. The first one is that they are replacing the faulty chipset with the same one, or with another faulty one. What are you basing this assumption on? I am one of the lucky ones who had my motherboard replaced at no charge. I have tried to find out what the original motherboard was for the dv9315ca, and have asked on this board, with no success. I can check that against the board they replaced it with and determing once and for all if they are putting the same chips in as you assume. So if someone knows where I can get that info let me know.
Second, you state that HP was aware of the issue "from jump." Again, what information is this based on. Do we really know when HP became aware a)that there was a problem and b)the scope of the problem. The fact is, we don't.
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it. The anger at HP is somewhat misdirected. Nvidia made the GPU's. It is their fault. HP has been placed in the unfortunate position of having to clean up Nvidia's mess. They may not be doing that to most people's satisfaction, but it is not a problem of their creation in the first place. Unless you have definative proof that HP was fully aware that the GPU's were faulty and continued to use them in their laptops. Nvidia has not been exactly forthcoming with information about their part in this. I realize that this is not an Nvidia forum, but if we are going to point the finger, perhaps we should be pointing two fingers.
Of course, my opinion is colored by the fact that my laptop was repaired. If I was sitting with a brick I would probably be hopping mad at HP too. Even if Nvidia deserves it more.
06-11-2009 04:32 PM
It's all 8400m's... Nvidia is not going to go back and fix a outdated chipset. They rather replace it with a newer series, and that's HP's decision.
What do you not understand of Nvidia fronting $198 million? What do you not understand about Dell and Apple both issuing recalls/extended warranties for the same chipset?
HP is the only one to NOT acknowledge the problem. Nvidia can't issue a recall for our laptops.
06-11-2009 04:49 PM - edited 06-11-2009 04:54 PM
If you buy a car built with parts supplied by a vendor and that part breaks, you do not go to the vendor. You go to your car manufacturer. HP likely makes NONE of the component electronic parts in their computers. If the computer fails we don't go to Intel or AMD or Qlogic, we go to our manufacturer. It is HP's job to deal with the vendor supplying parts, not ours. In this case it would be SOP to back bill Nvidia for the cost of or replacement of defective parts, which these parts have been shown to be from Nvidia's own investigation.
And, as I pointed out, by HP's own actions in creating the enhanced warranty (one year extension to the original OEM warranty) they admit knowledge of the defective part. At that point the defective part should have been removed from the manufacturing process. It was not. HP continued to build thousands of additional models using these defective components. HP intentionally decided to take a chance that they could get away with installing known defective parts.
I am presently building a desktop computer using parts purchased from the manufacturer's vendors. Each component part is warranted for 3 years directly from the manufacturer. The hard drive is Seagate, the RAM is Corsair, the processor is an Intel and the motherboard from Asus. All of these parts, if they fail can be and must be pulled from the case and returned to the manufacturer with copies of the purchase receipt. I cannot do that with the part that has failed in the HP Pavilion. HP is the responcible party.
BTW, the graphics card is Nvidia, but a much later chip set of different architecture than the 8600M GT and Nvidia warranties that also for 3 years.
06-11-2009 08:12 PM
06-11-2009 08:32 PM
Really, so if Fram put out a crapload of faulty oil filters, and they supplied filters to Ford, and the faulty filters caused engines to fail you would blame Ford not Fram? I agree it seems easiest to go after Ford (HP) but my point is that Fram (Nvidia) is the real culprit here and needs to be held accountable. Nvidia supplied the shoe with which HP stepped on us. But you don't blame the shoe.
Nvidia did step up and say they screwed up, they took 196 million from there stock profit, which pissed off the shareholders just to fix this problem. Here is the excerpt
"Nvidia recorded a $196 million charge against cost of revenue to cover costs arising from a weak die/packaging material set in certain versions of the previous generation MCP and GPU products used in notebook systems" - This was posted on Wednesday, 13 August 2008.
06-11-2009 09:15 PM
If the Fram filter was the one Ford installed OEM, it failed and the engine was destroyed, yes, and Ford would be on the hook to fix my engine. Ford would then be obligated to go back to Fram to collect from them for the defective filter with a likely law suit to cover the cost to Ford for the repair of my engine. BTW, many companies carry insurance to cover just such contingencies. Many court cases have supported such liability claims.
Now, if I had neglected to change that filter at recommended intervals then it is likely Ford would not be libel, as it could be ruled that I had failed my responsibility as outlined in the owners manual. If a subsequent filter failed and all of my maintenance responsibility had taken place, THEN Fram would be on the hook.
But again, at the danger of repeating myself, HP acknowledges their business responsibility by creating the enhanced warranty. We couldn't open the hood, so to speak, and clean the dust and lint from around the cooling system and install a fresh set of chips.
Your example would be better comparing similar parts between the HP product and the Ford car. The graphics card, an internal non-customer serviceable part, might compare to an internal engine oil pump made by another manufacturer, such as Seineca. Ford learns there is a defect in the oil pump that causes the engine to seize up, requiring a major overhaul to restore the engine function...at best, costly to Ford. When 10% of its fleet comes back due to oil pump related engine failure, Ford admits a defect and repair the engines at no cost to the buyers.
Ford has a warehouse full of these Seineca pumps and decides that it was only a 10% failure and rather than return the pumps to Seineca for a refund or credit, they could still make a profit by installing these parts and then dealing with the 10% comeback. They build the engines and add a recommendation that the existing owners switch to a heavier oil (to better keep oil protection in the engine as the pump starts to fail).
Down the road they realize that failures are slightly higher than expected and it is cutting into profits, so they deny that those car engines built after the original problem have the same problem, even though they contain the same defective parts. There is no justification for such a claim by Ford, they were aware of the problem up through their 9400 model, but continued to build their 9500, 9600 and 9700 models the same way. And some customers accept their denial and support their claim of, "It's not our fault. We were supplied bad parts. So there was nothing we could do." (read Atlas Shrugged).
06-12-2009 03:00 AM
If I'm honest, I'm pretty disappointed with HP. I've been a big fan of HP kit, not just their laptops but their enterprise products as well, but if this is what happens to their laptops shortly after end of warranty, could the same be said for their servers or storage? At least if I went with Dell, I could trust them to step up to the plate when a product was faulty, not found hiding behind a cry of "It's not our fault".
At this point, I don't care. My laptop is a brick and despite my persitence HP are still adamant there is nothing they can do as it's out of warranty. The fact that I have to replace the system board after 12 months of usage, is a good sign that something is wrong. Either the product has been manufactured with a faulty part or in an effort to maximise profits, HP are now building their products using the lowest bidder. In either case I'm not sure I can have the same respect I once did for their products, both home and enterprise business use.
06-12-2009 12:22 PM - last edited on 06-14-2009 09:46 AM by WendyM
So far I have corresponded with HP about 10 times about the black screen issue on my dv9715. The issue occured while I was under warranty and they gave me a band-aid fix. Problem occured again while under warranty but I used the band-aid fix they taught me. Last time it happend I was just a month out of warranty, and this time the band-aid fix didn't work. So yep... I'm screwed!
The highest level I have spoken to was "Corporate." The best that the "Executive Case Manager" could offer me was $100 off the repair cost ($300-400). From what I've read, even when you pay for a fix, the issue is not actually FIXED, and after the 90-day warranty, the problems return and you are, once again, screwed, AND out more $$.
At this point I have nothing to lose. I can waste their time and mine for as long as it takes.
06-12-2009 01:02 PM
been reading the thread and i think i may have the same prob. a week after warranty run out i began to have weird things happening to my screen. alot of green pixeling happrning here. i have a dv9500 series laptop with the geforce 7150/ nforce630m...my question is do i fall under this same prob that alot of people are having.