dv6 supported wifi cards -- BIOS white list update?

[gkline]

OK, I'm sure that I'm not the only person around here who has been THOROUGHLY dismayed to discover that HP has employed a BIOS level device restriction control in recent laptop models, i.e. a "white list", for supporting only a limited set of installed device models.  Yes, HP felt the need to not only prevent owners from installing ANY WiFi card of their own choosing, but to leave the list TIGHTLY RESTRICTED.

I can understand that HP forged relationships with only certain WiFi card providers like Atheros, Realtek, Ralink, Intel and Broadcom, and that for an AMD chipset there would be prevention of using Intel WiFi cards because... God forbid that AMD and Intel hardware work together.

But what really gets me mad is that of the brands "allowed" to work on a given laptop, the restriction is focused to allow just a few WiFi cards.  But what about PROGRESS?  Several years later, there are new WiFi cards on the market that provide greater speeds.  Yet HP laptop owners cannot use them because of this "white list" enforcement!

WHEN... when is HP going to issue BIOS updates to at least accommodate some of the newer WiFi card models so that users aren't left "stuck in 2nd gear"?  For my dv6-6145dx, the last BIOS update was in late 2011 (F21).  NOTHING SINCE.  I would like to know when HP will provide a BIOS update to allow more WiFi cards in my laptop.

In fact, I would like to make THIS PLEA to HP:

[quote]Dear Hewlett-Packard laptop management team,

I understand your need to promote business relationships with certain hardware vendors and decided to establish a "white list" protocol that will prevent a laptop from functioning when attempting to be used with an "unsupported device"... not because it physically can't be used, but because there is a BUSINESS DECISION to prevent the usage.  This isn't a big problem for new laptops, because a WiFi card installed is most likely one of the newer technologies and will be sufficient for the owner.

HOWEVER, in time the technologies change.  I humbly request that you either put a built-in time limit on the usage of the white list, or provide a BIOS update approximately 2 years after a laptop model has been released so that the owner can enjoy IMPROVED device technologies in their HP branded laptops.

If HP doesn't feel this is prudent, and believes that limiting device usage might prompt a customer to buy a NEW laptop in order to enjoy the latest technologies, then think again.  If I do not see HP making any effort to address this issue, you can bet that my next laptop will be from a vendor that is not called "Hewlett-Packard".

Thank you for your time and assistance in this matter.[/quote]

[Paul_Tikkanen · Accepted solution]

Hi:

You are correct that there are probably many, many, folks that share your opinion, and your post is the first one I have read that is stated in a respectful and rational stance, venting your frustration.

I usually ignore the ranting and raving posts regarding this matter, because nothing I have to write will matter to them.

Perhaps what I have to write won't matter to you either, but I am willing to take a chance.

There could be other issues such as regulatory (for example...SAR -  specific absorption rates) that HP has to test and validate wireless cards and antenna systems as a unit to meet this criteria, which could  (not is) be why they limit the use of many wireless cards.

http://www.metlabs.com/Services/Wireless-and-RF-Testing/SAR-Testing.aspx

While other notebook mfrs also have to follow the same guidelines, and don't lock out wireless cards from being used in their notebooks (I have stuck all kinds of WLAN cards in Dells for example), perhaps this is how HP deals with the matter.  And perhaps we as consumers are unknowingly breaking the law by installing any old wireless card in our notebooks if we have not SAR tested what we installed.

However, since this is a consumer to consumer forum, you are "preaching to the choir."

You could copy and paste your message to the CEO of HP, so at least it is read by an employee of the company, at the link below.

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/company-information/executive-team/ceo-index.html

Best Regards,

Paul

[gkline]

Paul,

Thank you very much for your reply that is not only thoughtful but also helpful.  I will endeavor to communicate my concern to HP and be keenly aware of needing to craft mycontent in as diplomatic a manner as possible.  I do not want to come across as a ranting customer, but more of a concerned consumer who appreciates the overall quality of HP laptops and is sad to see this white list practice as a negative to HP's reputation as a laptop manufacturer who is genuinely concerned for the customer.

I have owned several HP computer products over the years and have seen a somewhat uneven product success story, yet the laptop designs that worked well were above the competition for the price point. I think HP is gradually making further improvements (the ENVY line is most impressive), but reflective of executive level management issues that HP has faced (their CEO rotation and the fumbling with ending the computer product line only to double-back and return to it) their products can't help but suffer a little windfall from that.

Of course, there is also the slippery slope of trying to defeat the white list constraint (i.e. BIOS mod) but I'd rather not go down that path.  Of the WiFi cards that are presently supported, I'm trying to identify the one that has the best range... as my issue at hand is my newly acquired "lightly used" dv6-6145dx has a Ralink T5390 installed that is noticeably weaker in performance compared to the Intel 5100 in my dv5t.

Ralink has suffered many Internet postings of performance complaints so I'm not surprised.  Actually, the T5390 works fine for close range.  It's just that it falters when used at long range from a WiFi router. If you do have any experience with a variety of WiFi card brands, I'm curious to know which vendor you'd recommend checking out first... How would you rank Atheros, Realtek and Broadcom for WiFi long range handling?  Or is it a mixed bag that is more dependent upon specific models by each brand?

Best regards,

~Gary

[Paul_Tikkanen]

You're very welcome, Gary.

Personally I like Intel cards the best, but if you have an AMD processor and don't mod the BIOS (if you can), you can't use an Intel card.

So, my next choice would be Broadcom.

The other 3 are a mixed bag of ???

There are many posts regarding the Atheros and Realtek Cards dropping connections, your card with lousy range.

The only major complaint I have heard about the Broadcom card was just the one 4313 model that has some connection issues.

All the Broadcom cards I have ever had in my Dell or HP PC's have worked just fine.

Another concern of mine and others is HP's practice of pretty much only including single band (2.4 GHz) band cards in their consumer notebooks.

My HP business 6930pnotebook has a nice Intel 5300 dual band card.

I got my hands on a dv6810us consumer model and it came with a lousy Atheros AR 5007 G only card.

I saw in the service manual that you could install a Broadcom 4321 dual band card in there.

The problem is with many consumer models, what is listed in the service manual as supported, does not always work, since the service manual covers a broad range of models.  For example, the service manual for the dv6810 is really a dv6700 service manual and it covers dozens of models if not more.

Even worse is when I read when folks order a certain part # card from HP, they get a totally different card! 

Sometimes even a different brand...Order an Intel 6230 and get a Ralink card, for example.

So off to eBay I went looking for a Broadcom 4321 card with the HP part # on it (and I will only buy one on eBay if I see an actual photo of the card with the HP part # on the sticker).

I found one for $7.00. I figured for $7 bucks, it would be worth the risk of it not working.

To my pleasant surprise, it worked perfectly, and now I have a wireless N card that can transmit and receive on both the 2.4 and 5.0 GHz bands and I enjoy 144 MBPS on the 2.4 band and 300 MBPS on the 5.0 GHz (N only configuration) I set up on my router.

I wish I could tell you that one of the listed cards in your manual is guaranteed to work, but since I don't own your model PC, and never tried to install a different (even if listed as supported card) in it, I can't.

It is in essence, a crap shoot--with the odds heavily stacked against you.

I will tell anyone with a dv6810us model what card they can upgrade to and what part number to query by.

Best Regards,

Paul

[gkline]

Hi Paul,

Very interesting to hear of your WiFi card experiences.

Atheros seems to have some very nice newer models with reasonably good specifications, but I think I'll give Broadcom a deeper look based on your suggestion.

One thing that particularly annoys me with the Ralink RT5390 is that it appears to only support a 20MHz channel width.  My router is a TP-Link TL-WR941ND that can run up to 300Mbps.  However, the channel width needs to be set at 40MHz to support it, otherwise the 20MHz is limited to 130Mbps.  When I switched and rebooted, my dv6 could no longer connect.  It came up in the list as the connection type is not supported!  So apparently the 0~130Mbps range works on 20MHz and to go above 130Mbps you need a 40MHz channel width.

Funny enough, my HTC Evo 3D connected to my router with NO PROBLEM when set at 40MHz channel with.  I was therefore able to swtich the router back without having to go all the way down to the basement to change the router settings with a wired connection.

And that's just it... I can't find a WiFi card in the dv6 manual that indicates 300Mbps support, except for the Realtek RTL8191SE which is 1x2 (150Mbps send, 150/300Mbps receive)... *YET*, the part number that HP provides is 640926, which does not correspond to that card but instead to the RTL8188CE, which is just 150Mbps.  

I did look up the RTL818CE on the Realtek website, and these guys go to the trouble of showing the channel width specs, which is nice to see.

• 72.2Mbps receive PHY rate and 72.2Mbps transmit PHY rate using 20MHz bandwidth
• 150Mbps receive PHY rate and 150Mbps transmit PHY rate using 40MHz bandwidth

So, as a fall back this might not be a bad card (RTL8188CE) to get if I can find it on the cheap... 

[Paul_Tikkanen]

See what I mean about the part #'s not matching?

I can almost bet you that you would get the 8188 card and that one has all kinds of connection issues.

[gkline]

Out of curiosity, I started reading up on the general procedures used to mod the BIOS. I don't think I'll risk going for the white list removal, but I do see a more controlled technique of altering the existing white list to include a card of one's choosing.  Still, what's interesting is that I may be able to learn the EXACT supported part numbers this way, so I mitigate the issue of buying a WiFi card that may be blocked by the white list in my BIOS.

[Paul_Tikkanen]

That would be a neat idea if can insert the hardware ID of a card you wanted to install.

I have never tried to do anything with a BIOS except flash it.

And for me that is risky enough. 

[gkline]

Another interesting tidbit I discovered...

On a blogspot forum, I saw someone had posted about HP releasing a BIOS update for a particular model (DM1Z) and it included the addition of support for another WiFi card (an Intel 6230 in this case)--see the 1st comment dated Jan 28th 2012.  So, it does appear that HP indeed periodically releases BIOs updates to append models to the white list.  I just don't see anything for the dv6-6135/45 at this time.

[Paul_Tikkanen]

Yes, they do occasionally.

Then there is the matter of getting the right 6230 card. 

The HP part number in the manual for the dv6 listed is wrong, and to the best of my knowledge no one has yet found the right 6230 to work.

They did a BIOS update to my dv6810us adding support for the BCM 4322 WLAN card but I was happy with the 4321 card I bought, so I never bothered to try that one out.

Good luck on your quest. If you decide to modify the BIOS or swap out the card with a supported one listed, please post back and let us know how it worked.

BTW, did the driver I posted for your current card help at all?