HP Z620 : March 2024 : Windows 11 updates still working?

[JC_Work]

Hi all,

I’ve recently got a Z620 (dual Xeon E5-2620 2.0 GH, 24 GB Ram, motherboard V. 2, Bios v03.96., Nvidia NVS510).
It came with Windows 10 Pro setup on the boot SSD, so I went along with it and completed the Windows 10 Pro installation. It’s all working fine, for now.

I know a few people on this Forum back in 2022 and 2023 have managed to upgrade their z620s to Windows 11 (thanks to the excellent instructions by Paul_Tikkanen, SDH and others!)

But … we are non in March 2024 - are these z620s still working fine? Are the Windows 11 updates still coming through? What about release 23H2, for example.

Before attempting to upgrade/install Windows11 on my Z620 I just wanted to check with anyone whether this is still worthy doing it or not 😉

Thanks for all your help!

JC

[Paul_Tikkanen]

Hi:

I don't have a Z620, but all of my PC's that I upgraded to W11 are still getting all of the security updates, cumulative updates and whatnot.

This is the easiest way to upgrade to W11 if you are interested:

Read this discussion for how I upgraded several HP and Dell notebook and desktop PC's that did not meet the W11 hardware requirements to W11 22H3.

You have to use the version of the Rufus utility that I zipped up and attached in the discussion (v3.18).

Re: Issues upgrading to windows 11 - HP Support Community - 8517912

If the in-place upgrade fails, you should be able to clean install W11 using the bootable W11 installation flash drive you made with Rufus.

Microsoft will be ending support for W10 in October of 2025.

[SDH]

I do have some Z620 workstations upgraded to W11 23H2, all just got updated to Microsoft's "Moment 5", all working fine.

I too have shifted to the Rufus method of upgrading from W10Pro64 to W11Pro (all W11 are x64). One thing I've seen is that some older device drivers present on W10 get dragged over into the W11 build if you do an "in-place" upgrade rather than a clean install. The clean install gets you the latest device drivers that Microsoft (and HP?) appear to have settled on for the devices detected. I prefer those.

BIOS: DGroves here in the forum has helped me with some install issues and emphasized that setting BIOS to "Factory Defaults" is important before doing clean installs. Of interest, those BIOS settings present to the OS installer exactly what HP (and Intel) intended and result in pretty much a 1-size-fits-all install. After you run Windows Update and configure your system you can go into BIOS and fine tune the settings... or leave them as is. That advice and a clean install got one Z620 I could not upgrade to W11 working perfectly with a Z Turbo Drive G2 running a 512GB Samsung SM951 AHCI-controller M.2 SSD as my boot drive and a 1TB NVMe M.2 stick in a second ZTD G2 as my very fast documents drive using the latest W11 installed using Paul Tikkanen's Rufus technique.

Don't worry about your W10/W11 licensing. HP has internet-connected licensing servers which your workstation already has a "digital license" registered on. I have read that license is matched to your workstation's motherboard UUID, and on first connect to the internet the newly installed OS reaches out, confirms license, and activates the license on the workstation. Handy. From all I've seen the license to use your OS version (Pro or Home) of W10 and W11 appears to be the same.

MS intermittently updates their downloadable W11 .iso file to the latest version of the OS installer (used for both in-place upgrades and clean installs). Last time I looked it has been updated to "v2" and "v3" is probably right around the corner (if not already here). I'm assuming Paul's method downloads the latest released version. The value is that using a recently downloaded iso can prevent multiple layers of subsequent updating, versus what you'd go through if you had used an old W11 .iso that you saved from the past.

I have to say... using a boot Z Turbo Drive G2 with that special PCIe3 capable AHCI-controller M.2 SSD has breathed new life into the Z420 v2 and Z620 v2 workstations, along with upgrading to fast v2 processor(s) and 1866MHz memory. The use of an adjacent second ZTD G2 drive running a NVMe M.2 stick (PCIe3 or PCIe4 capable controller) as a documents drive was a very worthwhile upgrade also. Those ZTDs need to go into Zx20's PCIe3 slots to run at full speed (for the Zx20 I'm running those in slots 4 and 5, respectively). Note: If running two ZTDs in the same workstation remember to shift one or more of the 3 green device ID jumpers over from default position so both don't end up with the same device ID.

Maybe later projects...

[JC_Work]

SDH, Paul,

Thank you guys so much for your info – that’s super 😊

A couple of question if I may :

- My z620 is still a fairly clean workstation, no programs or apps on it  that I wouldn’t be able to reinstall if needed  (all my work and personal data are on two SSDs in bay 2 and bay 3 of the z620, so unaffected by the installation).
Given this, I would probably skip the update process from W10 to W11 and go for a clean install of Windows 11. From my understanding, I just need to use Paul Tikkanen modified Rufus utility and then proceed with the bootable W11 installation created with it … correct? I don’t need to change anything in the BIOS, correct?
- As the preloaded W10 setup is on a Samsung SSD (bay 1) that came with the z620, I was thinking of replacing this SSD with a different one (possibly a 480GB Kingston) and  then use the new SSD as the drive target for the ISO installation, so effectively this becoming the boot SSD where W11 runs. Would this work? What about the W11 licence - if I reverse back to W10, would that still be the same licence, as per SDH note?
(I ask this because I would like to keep the W10 installation handy in case something goes wrong, and I need to reverse back to W10. This way, I figure, I would just stick the original Samsung SSD back in bay 1 in the z620 and hopefully it would boot back to Win10, with no hassle in reinstalling/reconfiguring it).

Thanks!

JC

[SDH]

I'll defer to Paul on his Rufus technique.

Regarding the licensing... you'll be able to go back and forth between W10 and W11. In my work I need to test new OS builds with expensive/critical software that needs to be compatible with OS or driver upgrades that might break that software (and has) and come up with workarounds if needed. Some years ago I built up a Z620 testbed workstation that has an Icy Dock "receiver" connected to SATA3 (6Gbps) port 0 on the motherboard. This way I can have a series of 500GB 2.5" form factor SSDs in their respective Icy Dock "carriers" and switch back and forth between them easily from the front face of the workstation. Some are running W10Pro64 plus that software and some are running W11Pro plus the software. There has never been a licensing issue going back and forth between W10 and W11, and from other things I've seen I believe the license is identical for each OS. Regardless, no issue there. Some of those switchable builds were upgraded to W11 from W10 and some were clean installs of W11 (via Rufus) from scratch using the W11 "digital license" for that workstation that resides on the Microsoft W10/W11 licensing servers.

Regarding changing BIOS. You can always save out your BIOS settings using what HP calls "Replicated Setup" which is a feature built into the BIOS. You can go back and forth from Factory Defaults to your saved BIOS settings using the same little feature. Having BIOS set to Factory Defaults is good for when you're doing a clean install because some BIOS settings actually influence what the OS installer sees as devices present and installs drivers for. For example, SATA emulation is supposed to be set to "RAID" because that gets you drivers for all options (it actually means "RAID + AHCI"). Both HP and Intel recommend that approach even if you never plan to use RAID. If it is set to "IDE" that can create quite a mess during a clean install.

Terminology: Look carefully at the silver vertical metal that runs up along one side of your Z620's drive bays. HP stamped on the bay numbers there... they're somewhat subtle. The far bottom 3.5" bay has a "0" next to it, and going up from there is a 1, 2 and on. The rear BlindMate connector inside Bay 0 is wired to the SATA data cable that is intended to run down to the SATA3 (6Gbps) gray far front bottom corner port 0 on the motherboard... that is the intended boot port. I think you're calling that bay 0 "bay 1" instead.

[Paul_Tikkanen · Accepted solution]

You're very welcome.

Use the Rufus v.3.18 utility and set it up exactly as you see it in the screenshot.

Boot from the installation media.

You will be asked what version of W11 you want to install (I assume you will select W11 Pro if your PC has W10 Pro installed now).

Then you will be asked to enter a product key.   

Select the 'I don't have a product key' option and W11 will install and then activate after you are connected to the internet.

It is as easy as that.

Last September, I jumped the gun when Microsoft released the new 23H2 version of W11 and created a new bootable W11 23H2 USB flash drive with the Rufus v3.18 version.

I should have waited because it appears that 23H2 was rolled out as a feature update and it would have been interesting to see if my PC's had automatically gotten that update just like all the other cumulative and security updates they got.

This time I will wait until the W11 24H2 version is released.

I have a fully supported W11 HP notebook, so when that one gets the 24H2 update, I will know one way or the other.

If my other PC's do not get the update, I will use Rufus like I did for 22H2 and 23H2 to do in-place upgrades to 24H2.

Of the approximately 13 different model HP and Dell notebook and desktop PC's I have, only two refused to do an in-place update from the older W11 version, and since it takes less than a couple of hours for me to fully get my PC's set up the way I want them after a clean install, it is no big deal to clean install W11 on those.

I still say that these W11 hardware restrictions are artificial, and the real reason was that Microsoft did not want to provide operating system support to millions of ancient PC's that shouldn't have even run W10, and then would be upgraded to W11.

I have PC's from 2008 that run W11 just fine such as my HP dc7800 CMT and my HP 6910p notebook.

Microsoft doesn't want to be dealing with support requests for PC's that old on W11.

Just think of how many PC's they removed from the support loop that didn't meet the W11 hardware requirements.

Certainly, the PC manufacturers didn't mind this either. 

PC sales must have improved beyond what they normally would have had if Microsoft stuck with W10, like they indicated they would back around 2018 or so--that W10 would be the last Windows OS.

In conclusion, I find no disadvantages whatsoever of running W11 on 'unsupported hardware.'

[Paul_Tikkanen]

Hi:

A follow-up on whether or not W11 will automatically install the newer build feature updates.

Unfortunately, the answer is no.

I was over my son's house this afternoon, and I had given him a HP 6200 Pro MT that I installed W11 22H2 on last year.

I checked and ran Windows update and it was up to date, but the W11 version was 22H2, so I told him the next time I come over, I will do an in-place upgrade to W11 22H3 with the Rufus flash drive I've used on my other PC's.

So, I guess I will be making a new W11 24H2 Rufus flash drive in October 2024 to do in-place upgrades as usual.

[SDH]

Paul, 

I've noticed that if you wait long enough with old HP workstations/HP business class PCs the "new" updates become older and then show up in Windows Update automatically. Hopefully that pattern will continue.

It certainly is in Microsoft's best interests for this to unofficially continue. Usually I just go into Windows Update in W11, turn on the option to get updates as soon as possible, and then do a search for updates. I've been getting them that way on my odd old upgraded HP and non-HP computers. I turn that option back off when done. I think MS calls this being a "seeker". 

[JC_Work]

SDH, Paul,

You guys deserve a medal ! Thanks again for all your help.

SDH

• Terminology: you are absolutely right, it’s Bay 0 (boot drive) and then Bay 1 and Bay 2. The irony in this is that I did correctly identified the Bays order in a setup doc I wrote to help me with the install. I guess I’ve just got mixed up when typing here in the Forum
• BIOS: I will certainly do a “Replicated Setup”, thanks for the tip!
• Windows 11 licensing: that’s great news. One small question, what’s the difference between Win 11 Pro & Win 11 Pro for Workstation? Is that an option worth considering for a z620? What benefits would it bring?
• Z turbo drive and M2 as boot drive:: how difficult would it be to install it and use this option as opposed to place a Kingston (or other vendor) SSD in bay 0? How much this solution would cost? At the end of the day, we are talking about a used Z620 so I’m not inclined to spend buckets 😉
  
  

Paul

• Win 11 23H2: just to be sure, is this the latest version that would be loaded on the Rufus key?
• Recovery partitions: I’ve noticed these are always present in all the HP laptops and desktops I’ve owned over the years. Is this something the HP create when releasing their pcs, or is this created automatically by the Windows install ?

Thanks!

JC

[Paul_Tikkanen]

You're very welcome.

Yes, W11 23H2 is the latest version available.

If the PC came with a recovery partition from HP, it is loaded with the HP system image at the factory.

Windows does create a recovery section, and you can use that to reset the PC, but it is not the same as the HP recovery partition.

I never used the HP recovery partitions, and they were one of the first things I deleted when I used to get a new PC or notebook from HP.

I always clean install operating systems and use the maximum allowable space on the hard drive.

The recovery partition takes up several GB of space.

BTW, I went over to my son's house with my trusty Rufus v3.18 W11 23H2 flash drive and successfully did an in-place upgrade from 22H2 to 22H3 in about 25 minutes.

The update time depends on how many files and whatnot are on the drive.

If you have a ton of programs and files on a large capacity drive, it could take longer than that.