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Do HP Z210 CMT Workstations Support Ivy Bridge yet?

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Z210 CMT Workstation
Microsoft Windows 7 (64-bit)

I have a Z210 CMT Workstation with a Xeon E3-1240 CPU.  If possible, I would like to upgrade to a 3rd gen Ivy Bridge CPU.  I have what I believe is the latest BIOS for the board: J51 v01.55.  CPU-Z IDs that BIOS as 6/13/2018.  One would think that by now, the BIOS would regognize 3rd Gen processors, no?

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This question has been asked many times in relation to upgrading a z210 to a Xeon e3 v2 cpu.

 

IIUC, in theory it is possible to run a v2 cpu due to the fact that the motherboard chipset is compatible with the v2 cpu itself. However, HP has been steadfast in NOT updating the BiOS to include the v2 cpuid microcode so a z210 wont boot with a v2 cpu installed. 

 

Again, IIRC, the v3 Xeon required an updated chipset which would mean an updated motherboard and a BIOS that included the v3 cpuid microcode, none of which exists (in relation to zX10 workstations) as far as I know. 

 

Even some early z820s can’t be upgraded to v2 Xeon so it’s a sad situation that could have been easily fixed by HP (either by updating BIOS or identifying what technical issues prevent them from supporting v2 Xeon in zX10 and zX20 workstations).

 

You can can read earlier posts on the subject by searching the forum for ‘z210 cpu microcode’ or such. Here, here and here are some interesting posts but there are more.. I think there is even a thread on hacking the bios to make v2 cpus work in z820s (hint look at the link within the last reference). 

 

So the simple answer regarding v3 cpu upgrade on a z210 workstation is “buy a new machine” in HP speak. 

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just a update on the z620/820 cpu compatability

 

when these workstations were under development HP was allready aware that the newer cpu models were under development by intel, as such those workstation models were designed from the start with the newer cpu's in mind

 

however even with that information, HP still had to do a motherboard revision due to intel changing the chipset for the newer cpu models

 

intels policy is to release a newer chipset/socket with each new cpu series previously under their older tick/tock policy you had a new cpu/chipset (tick) and then a process shrink, refinement (tock) this is why cpu models like the 55xx/56xx will work on the same chipset, as the cpu's share the same core feature set

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Thank you for the answer and the precise explanation.  So, is there no other HP Zxxx workstation motherboard that would work in the Z210 so that I could go with a 3rd gen upgrade to the E3-1240?

 

Silly me.  I thought that the comment in the v1.55 BIOS details stating "-Updates Intel processor microcode to 0x2E" might mean that HP finally allowed users to actually upgrade their product to at least use the next gen of 1155 processors.  Or as DGroves says, the "tock" or "refinement".  

Thanks to both of you.

 

 

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Maybe like other 1st tier OEMs, it seems HP spends technical design effort and business process effort to make it more difficult for their customers to buy newer HP components that can be retrofitted to their older workstations. Cases with stamped I/O plates rather than removable I/O plates make mobo swaps rather problematic, non standard power supplies of a slightly different size between workstation generations makes power upgrades difficult. Meanwhile their support systems can’t handle a customer buying a complying better CPU for their single socket system directly from HP and having it supported by them (you must go 3rd party supply). 

 

The truth is that 1st tier OEMs simply want you to replace your workstations every few years, This is somewhat highlighted by the fact that Intel changes sockets rather too often and IMHO without strong technical reasons, and rather than the OEMs questioning this practice, all the OEMs just happily accept it without challenge as it benefits them (at our cost).

 

To highlight this, I recently read a review of a new Intel CPU that was running on a firmware modded mobo with an old non compliant chipset that scored exeptionally well in benchmarks. The take was that it ran when Intel said it shouldn’t run on that old chipset... haven’t found the link but will post it when I do. 

 

(Edited to add: here is a link to an article re coffee lake on older chipset but it’s not the one I had read earlier however it should make the point... where are the regulators wheni Intel is using its dominant market position in this way?)

 

I’m sure that HP could release a simple firmware update and allow our z210’s to run e3 V2 xeons without issue if they desired but their focus is on new sales rather than supporting old machines. Heck, HP didn’t even bother releasing the last Intel iRST drivers for our generation machine (that resolved an issue, that I think was related to some data loss possibilities, they just CBF supporting their customers really).

 

With the old outdated BIOS, mods were rather simple and it was feasible for those interested in such things but with signed UEFI firmware and the boot security mechanisms they use, the bar has been raised too far.  So, now making what should be simple mods (like updating microcode) has fallen into the too hard basket. Yep, seems UEFI security serves us well... we are now locked away from the hardware we own... 

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when intel adopted their policy of new chp, new chipset back in the late 70's they were hardly the dominate player they are nowadays and theere were many other CPU makers such as AMD (who holds cross licsenses for x86 code) cyrix, mediaGX, VIA,  there were also many competing chipset makers and as time went by the and computers went from a specilaty items to a generic comodity the market (like all markets do) consolidated

 

the same happened to the computer makers, so your comment that HP spends engerining talent making something difficult for their customers would be counter productive to their desire to make money

 

The "IT"/enterprise /workstation markets are quite diffrent in their requirements as opposed to the consumer market where price rules all to the exclusion of everything else.  As such hp markets products tailored to those markets  and you as a consumer trying to apply your needs to those markets is not a valid comparison

 

the only statement you make that i consider valid is:

 

The truth is that 1st tier OEMs simply want you to replace your workstations every few years, This is somewhat highlighted by the fact that Intel changes sockets rather too often and IMHO without strong technical reasons, and rather than the OEMs questioning this practice, all the OEMs just happily accept it without challenge as it benefits them (at our cost).

 

truth is ANY vender wants you to buy more and more often from him, no supprise there

intel has been changing sockets with new cpu's for decades and there is a valid reasion for this, by starting clean they do not have to spend time/money making something backwards compatable you think desiging a new chipset while mataining compatability is trivial or easy? it's not and since intel is the largest cpu maker they can set that policy and get away with it. you don't like it? buy AMD

 

next does intel abuse their policy reguarding backwards chipset compatability? you could make the case for both sides

as many consumers/business users do not upgrade systems they replace them with only the enthusiast's actually replacing parts which is a far smaller market

 

last, custom parts in computers for the most part are there because they actually do something better/cheaper than the standard white box part. tooling up for a non standard power supply is not a trivial task nor is mataining the part in stock from a single supplier as opposed to a OEM part from numerous venders so computer makers consider carefully if creating a non standard part is worth the cost of creating/stocking it vs a generic part while Apple stands in stark contrast to the above, apple places the physical size of their laptops above all else which mandates custom parts

it's also why their market share is so small, but that small market share generates 30% profit as opposed to the PC market's 2% profit share on sales so who's to say apple is wrong ?

 

could HP release a bios that adds cpu/nvme support to older computers? of course they could. but since HP was/is quite upfront about the support time a workstation will receive when said model is released and goes out of support i think that people like you who complane about not getting newer features on older hardware really don't have a leg to stand on

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Yeah, no... 

 

In the early days Intel provided backward compatability between new cpus and sockets. Now it seems with almost every cpu genervation always update, which in many cases still uses the previous socket, Intel provide a new chipset and state the CPU is not comparable with the old... And OEMs must tow the line and not release firmware for the older mobos using the older chipsets that in many cases are comparable (for example the HP z210 chipset is compatible with v2 CPU)... it’s simply Intel using its market dominance to push sales which also benefits the OEMs so no one complains even though Intels behaviour is illegal...  and by default the OEMs hands are unclean. BUt you’re entitled to your view tHough I see it differently. 

 

And when I use the term consumer, I mean it in the broad sense where a business buying 2000 workstations is consuming  just as an individual buying 1 workstation is consuming... I’m not meaning it in a way to differentiate market segments...  

 

ANd iirc, when the z210 was released, there was lots or statements in review sites that these machines would support v2 CpUs but it all amounted to nought. SO I can only assume it was hardly honest info provided to the reviewers by HP. 

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