HP Z620 RAM upgrade : worth it or go for a more recent workstation?

[JC_Work]

Hi all,

I've got a Z620 which works flawlessly, with dual Xeon E5-2620 (v.0), 24 GB of RAM (2 GB for each DIMM), Nvidia NVS 510 and  Windows 11 PRO 23H2 installed. I use the workstation mostly for coding and running financial simulations through Hyper-V VMs (one VM running MS Server 2022, two VMs running Ubuntu 2404 each). I tend to work with 13-14 desktop workspaces open at the same time, each workspace dedicated to a different line of work.
 
I’m now considering installing HP Data Science Stack to play a bit with AI datasets and models, but with the current setup I'm obviously starting to hit the limitation of RAM (and processor speed!).

Question : how much RAM do you think it's worth adding to my workstation to work comfortably with my setup? I'm looking at this from a cost/benefit point of view: if adding, say, 128 Gb of RAM costs nearly as much as getting a second-hand Z4 or Z6 with a more recent processor, well, I may just consider skipping the RAM upgrade and go for an additional workstation 😉

What do you think?

As always, thanks for all your help! 

JC

[SDH]

You clearly are using that Z620 at a high level... you've gotten your money's worth. You mention the "E5-2620 (v.0)" which might be what I call the v1 in contrast to the E5-2620 v2. Is that because you have a Z620 v1 with the earlier boot block date? Or, do you have a Z620 v2 with the later boot block date but are only running the v1 E5-2620 in it. In the early days a good number were sold that way.

The reason I ask is that if you have a v2 you could upgrade your processors to two of the much better faster v2 processors as a quite inexpensive option and hang on for longer while the ZX G4 generation comes on down more in price.

That has already started happening, but it has happened to a much more significant degree in the ZX40 generation. Search eBay, for example, for lowest prices on the Z440 vs the Z4 G4. Used dual QPI processor prices have come down much more for the Z640 (get v4, not v3) than the Z6 G4 too.

There is much room to improve from what you currently are running. If you stick with your Z620 and it is a v2 I can get you info on retired server memory that works perfectly in that... 16GB sticks I've tested.

[JC_Work]

Hi SDH,

First of all sorry for the delay in replying. You may not remember this but the input from you and Paul_Tikkannen last year in setting up this very same workstation was instrumental 😊 thank you both guys, once again!

Going back to your reply...

- I’ve got the Z620 in December 2022, renewed, through Amazon
- the Boot Block Date is 03/06/2013   (in the European format DD/MM/YYYY)
- System Bios : J61 is v03.96,  (apparently, the bios was refreshed in 29/10/2019)
- Looking up the serial code on the HP Support page the workstation was initially configured in 2015
- so I guess you may be right, the twin E5-2620 could be v2 … in the bios it states they are running at 2.0 GHz … any way to find out actual version?
- Memory sticks:  if I got this right, you are saying the ones fitted on old Xeon servers (HP ProLiant or even other brands?) would do just fine? As I intend to run multiple VMs and possibly some LLMs, I would go at least for a 64 GB configuration or more
- Just en passant, on a different topic (I may open a different thread):  reading through the “Quick Specs HP Z620 Workstation, 1 April 2015” doc, it seems that more recent Z620s (maybe my workstation too?) can be fitted with a M.2 drive as Boot drive. Do you know whether this is true?

Thanks in the meantime! 😊

JC

[SDH]

The version 1 Z620 have a boot block date ending in 2011 and the version 2 has 2013. Back then the cost of v2 Xeon dual QPI link processors was quite a bit higher than for the v1 equivalent. Thus many buyers ended up with a Z620 v2 motherboard but one or two v1 processors. That is your situation, which is good news because the v2 dual QPI link processors now have come way down in price. There are Z620 QuickSpec documents and the latest versions show the latest HP-approved processors and are mostly v2 in the late QuickSpecs. CPUz from CPUid.com is free and an easy little utility to see what you truly have inside. If the processor is a v2 then CPUz will show that "v2" but if only a v1 it won't show anything after the Xeon's alphanumeric. Intel just left that v1 blank in their naming scheme.

It is worth knowing that the v1 vs v2 motherboard issue was there with the ZX00 and ZX20 families of HP workstations, but not for the ZX40 or ZX G4. To run the later processors for those you just need to make sure you're running the latest BIOS.

Memory... I'll post a follow-up later today with pics of both the 8GB and 16GB recycled server sticks that work perfectly in the Z420/Z620 v2 workstations we use. Those are DDR3, and the next 2 families use DDR4. The pics I'll post will run at or above the fastest the respective motherboards can ever run at.

Yes the HP ZX20 family motherboards and later BIOS can run M.2 sticks, but not NVMe ones (for all practical purposes). HP certified the ZX20 to run specific AHCI-controller M.2 sticks. Turns out the initial ones that were available were slower. The later one HP added is faster... almost as fast as the early NVMe-controller M.2 sticks. I have worked with all of those, including non-HP-certified ones. The Z Turbo Drive G2 PCIe card is the right interface for the M.2 stick to run in your Z620. It has an excellent aluminum heatsink (which the ZTD G1 does not) and works in many other HP workstations including the ZX40 and ZX G4 families.  More on that to come, and if you stick with your Z620 v2 we have found that faster one is worth using. The 256GB AHCI M.2 sticks are becoming rare. I build using the 512GB faster version sticks, and those are even more rare. It really is better to move up to the next family of workstations if you seek speed these days.

The ZX40 family can run the v3 and v4 Xeon processors, plus can run the NVMe-controller M.2 sticks in the ZTD G2. That is your best lowest cost step up on a budget because those are now 2 generations back but include unusually big technology advances. The BIOS in those is a quantum leap up. The ZX G4 family is still pricy but costs are coming down because it is now one generation back. Personally, I'd recommend you invest your time into a Z440 or Z640 because of the big leaps you'd be missing out on otherwise. A finely tuned Z440 or Z640 can perform near to what an "affordable" Z4 G4 or Z6 G4. We here have easy access to the US eBay. I don't know how things are for you in France, however.

[SDH]

For the AHCI-controller M.2 faster Samsung SM951 here are the 128/256/512GB HP Samsung part numbers:

HP MZHPV128HDGL-000H1 = 793099-001
HP MZHPV256HDGL-000H1 = 793100-001
HP MZHPV512HDGL-000H1 = 793102-001

Lenovo also used those and theirs would end with L1 instead of H1. I checked... very hard to find now for both the HP and Lenovo ones... there are also NVMe versions of the SM951 which will not work in the ZX20 generation. I'd count this out as a viable current option... another reason to go for more recent technology.

Note I settled on Samsung for the 8GB and Micron for the 16GB. The 8GB are single rank; the 16GB are dual rank. You can't mix ranks. Best/easiest to use same memory of same size and rank filling all sockets.

Regarding the memory... this is 1866 memory that worked great in our Z420 v2 and Z620 v2 workstations, and also worked in the old days in our Z600 v2 (but not the Z400 v2) workstations. Other OEM suppliers used these too, but I'm only showing you what I personally chose and tested by use over the years. We've moved on to at least the ZX40 HP workstations.

[JC_Work]

Hi SDH,

Thank you ever so much for your help – that’s brilliant. And sorry again for the delay in replying to you (work and other things always get me side-tracked!)

I will download CPU-Z and check version of the Xeon processor later today.

In the meantime :

- Regardless of the version of the processor (E5-2620 v1 vs v2), it seems clear to me that a more recent Zx40 or ZX G4 workstation would probably fit the bill better for me, as it would perform better and it would be easier to find memory sticks suited for a more recent workstation, not to mention the possibility to boot from an NVMe M.2 drive
- So the approach would be to leave my Z620 more or less at it is, possibly adding as much (cheap) memory as I can find so I can use it for VMs and other work which don’t need speed or processing power. At the same time, get a more recent, second hand workstation that performs better so that I can run applications (i.e. financial modelling and, if suited, LLMs)
- Yes, prices of Zx40 and ZX G4 have come down quite a bit recently. I actually live in Italy now, after 20+ years in UK and I do miss the vast availability of refurbished and second-hand HP equipment I had access to back there. Having said that, eBay here in Europe lists lots of Hp workstations from German, Poland and Italian datacentres so it’s more a matter of finding the ones from a trusted source and at a good price …
- For example, how about this specs : Z640 Xeon 2x E5-2640V3,  RAM 64GB, SSD 512GB ? It’s just an example, but how much improvement you reckon I would get - roughly - compared to my Z620 workstation? There also Z840 and some Z6 G4 at a quite interesting price …

Thanks as always! 😉

JC

[SDH]

Some tips:

For our work in medical imaging we don't need supercomputers. I've migrated towards the Z440 and the Z4 G4 and optimized those. Sometimes it is worth getting a Z640 or Z6 G4 and yet only run those in a single processor configuration. However, in a Z640 the motherboard only has 4 memory sockets available if you run it with only 1 processor. We only want to run Xeon processors and use their ECC Buffered memory, for best data integrity. The 2933 memory for the Z4 G4 also runs fine in the Z440 so that is what we get to be able to later shift it up to ZX G4 workstations as those come down in price later. Faster memory won't speed up a slower processor, and vice versa... a slower processor will slow down faster memory to its own speed.  Cost/GB in memory is usually lower in smaller sticks so don't lust after big GB sticks unless you really need that much.

I'm sure your perception of performance improvement will be very impressive if you migrate from your Z620 to a Z440 (or to a Z640), but if you thereafter then upgrade to a ZX G4 you'd only see a small change (unless you checked your wallet). Video card speeds have improved greatly over the recent years, which can really elevate your user experience when everything else is finally very fast. Use of a M.2 stick as your boot/apps SSD is a given. Consider a PCIe4 stick in these PCIe3 slot workstations.

Below is some info on how processor costs have gone way down in the ZX40 workstations. A good number of us use CPU Benchmark scores to see how processors compare for multithread and single thread performance. Single thread numbers reflect your experience very well in day to day use. Use the Intel sSPEC  codes for each processor to search eBay with, filter price and shipping lowest, and Chinese sellers usually ship worldwide... there is some added risk involved as expected but I've not had a bad experience. 

As an example, here's some info on the Z640 E5-2640 v3 processors in the workstation you found (showing how little it would cost you to upgrade from a v3 to a v4 processors). There are siginficantly better v4 dual QPI link processors for you to choose from also... see the v4 processors that can be run in a dual processor configuration in the Z640 QuickSpecs attached below if you go with that workstation.

The current v3 processors in the Z640 you found:
SR205 sSPEC code to search eBay with
939.00 USD cost for each, on release
5.95 USD eBay cost each, now
11107/1876 single processor CPU Benchmark multithread/single thread
17570/1753 dual processors

The v4 version of that processor and its original cost vs now on eBay:
SR2NZ
939.00
9.99
12511/1963
20863/1850

The Z4 G4 I bought "bare bones" and built up with the fastest reasonably priced processor currently for my home use is detailed below, and I'll upgrade to a faster one when the costs drop:

Z4 G4 with Xeon W-2235
SRGVA
610.00
64.00
14377/2645 single processor only

Recent related QuickSpecs are shown below:

[JC_Work]

Hi SDH,

I fully subscribe to your words: most of us don’t need a supercomputer (certainly not myself!)  😉

Getting back to your points:

- RAM sticks for my existing Z620, how about these (from a German supplier) : https://www.ebay.it/itm/356206343128?_skw=ram+1866+z620&itmmeta=01JKK0QQ0BRW2Y0ZS3Y5YKC763&hash=item...

Would they fit?
- I’ve downloaded the CPU-Z tool and attached is a screenshot with current values. I may be wrong, but it looks like the two E5-2620s on my workstation are v.0 (in other words v1) and not v2…right?
- I see the E5-620 supports SSE4.2 in the Instruction set … does this mean I can install Windows 24H2 on my Z620?
- Forgive my ignorance: I’m not entirely clear what QPI link means in term of performances … is that related to how much memory a CPU can support?
- Talking about performances : I’m familiar with Cpu Benchmark but I still don’t understand how the E5-2620 performs in a dual socket configuration. According to www.cpubenchmark.net  the E5-2620 v.0 it is rated at 5290 (multithread)/1107 (single thread) but how this equates in a dual socket setup? I certainly don’t expect it would double the processing power …
- Regarding the original topic of this thread: a possible plan of action could be to improve the RAM size on my Z620 while at the same time get a ZX40 with decent specs, being aware that on the ZX40 I can later upgrade both processor and RAM at minimal cost. Having said that, a (new) SR2NZ on eBay Europe costs around 90 EUR (roughly 92 USD)… like this one, for example : https://www.ebay.it/p/3019025276
I wouldn’t mind getting second-hand CPUs and RAM from Chinese sources if very cost effective, but I don’t understand how it works with import taxes here in Europe (the same for US sourced hardware) or how reliable they are …

Thanks for everything ... and for the QuickSpecs docs you’ve attached … they are extremely useful indeed! 🙂

JC
JC Z620 workstation - CPUz

[SDH · Accepted solution]

I hope you're running out of questions!

1. The HP Samsung DDR3 sticks you found for your Z620 v2: 712383-081 M393B2G70QH0-CMAQ8 M 1350 (Search also under 715274-001 for added examples) Samsung 64 GB DDR3-1866 PC3-14900R M393B2G70QH0-CMA CL13
All the 3 HP OEM suppliers shown in my pic below should work for you fine as 16GB/sticks in your Z620 v2 motherboard but I generally want to use only a single OEM supplier in any build (I only tested with Micron for my 16GB x 8 sticks test project). I'd not hesitate to use all Samsung or all SKHynix from the picture I added, however. Just best to not mix and match. The sticks you show are from HP Enterprise for HP servers but those run great also in the v2 version of the Z420 and Z620. HP reportedly "bins" their memory to even higher than standard specs so that is partly why I prefer (within financial reason) to only use ones with the HP sticker on them. Those would work fine in a Z420 v2 despite that not being documented but I'd make sure to add front case fan and memory cooling saddle if one did not already have those when you go up in memory like this. The Z620 has more intrinsic cooling but in our single-processor Z620 builds I always made sure a front case cooling fan was present and the optional memory banks cooling "saddle" was installed.

Don't be tempted to use even a single stick of slower memory... it will slow all the other sticks down to match itself and even slow down your processor(s) if they are rated faster.

2. CPU-Z processor name of your current processors: Yes, that is exactly what Intel calls your v1 processor, officially. Those first version processors run fine in a Z620 v2 motherboard as you've seen (plus in a Z420 v2 motherboard). The later v2 (Ivy Bridge code name) processors can run faster, up to max 1866, so that is why you should have memory that can also run at max v2 speeds in your v2 motherboard. The later v3 and v4 ones only run in the next ZX40 generation of workstations, can run even faster, and require DDR4 memory.

3. SSE4.2 capable: Yes, and the E5-2620 v2 has that also, and you can look that up for about any processor easily via google. For those who don't know this feature is shown in the "Instructions" segment of CPUz. Microsoft hard-coded the requirement for this "population count" instruction for W11 24H2 (and on) to function. Not so for W11 23H2 (and before). It even is there for all the old Z400/Z600 processors I checked.

4. QPI links: Good question for google. QPI links of 2 means the processor supports dual processor functionality, but it can also be run as a single processor only. One link is used to talk to the chipset, and the other to talk to the other processor (if another is present). There is a tiny bit of overhead speed loss, but for multithreaded applications the boost in performance is quite large if you're running dual processors. There is not anywhere near as big a change in single-thread performance by running two processors.

5. Single vs Dual Processor Performance: Look again. I listed the single/dual performance for you already for your Z640 find, and you can look it up for your current Z620. To find dual processor performance (with two in place of course) search google for "E5-2620 v2 dual" instead of "E5-2620 v2". There is no official "E5-2620 v0" or "E5-2620 v1" so don't use those terms in your searching, and I probably should not use them here either.

6. How to compare processors: Now that you know how to find the CPU Benchmark performance for the HP-approved processors time to make a spreadsheet. To find the sSPEC codes for each use google and under the top Intel hit go to the Ordering and Compliance tab. If there are two sSPEC codes only get the latest one. Don't mix sSPEC codes in a workstation. Lately there have been only one sSPEC code for each processor in the ZX40 and ZX G4 series, and in the ZX00 and ZX20 workstations that I've upgraded over the years I've never seen HP use the earlier sSPEC code if there were 2 (very rarely even 3). It has been very rare for us to get a bad memory stick or processor recycled through eBay. These are not items that tend to get overclocked or overheated.

7. Bonus #1: Attached below is the last QuickSpecs for the Z620 (v2 motherboard era) and I'd only consider using the HP-certified processors that run 1866 memory since you're now going to get only 1866 memory.

8. Bonus #2: Here's that picture showing the 3 main OEM suppliers of those 16GB sticks and their single HP assembly part number and the one spares P/N shown. These will work in the Z420 v2 and the Z620 v2. Never mix ranks. Follow the HP memory "best" load order for dual processors for your workstation. This ensures you get Quad Channel memory benefits. Some old HP memory documentation was written for the original v1 motherboards... things changed, and HP stops its qualification process when they have to move on. So, not-HP-certified does often not mean that a good idea won't work in the current real world.

Only use one OEM supplier...

[JC_Work]

Hi SHD,

I'm running out of questions indeed, especially after your very detailed replies - thank you a million! 🙂

It will take some time to go through your info regarding processors, I've already started comparing a few of them … obviously cost is the driving factor, here 🙂

One very last question, if I may: I read you had worked in medical imaging … have you ever come across the Barco graphics cards on HP workstations? I've seen a second-hand Z840 with very high specs which hosts a Barco (MXRT-8700) graphic card. Do you know whether they are good or worth using them for more mundane graphic processing (like Photoshop, Premiere Pro and similar)?

Once again, thanks for everything!!

JC