M.2 PCIe SSD in Z600 with Windows 10

[tamm0r]

Hi!

I read a lot about the Kingston Predator M.2 PCIe "card" working with Windows 7 in ZX00 machines.

But what about Windows 10? Are there any compatible drivers?

[SDH]

I suppose I need to do that next.  I have to go away for 1.5 weeks.  I can capture an Acronis image from the Z600 I have running on a Predator in my home office on a clean W7Pro64 build (so I can recreate that build if it breaks under W10).  The plan would be to capture that, and then try a straight upgrade from within the build to W10Pro64.  I have to check if that Z600 was ever W10Pro64 upgraded.  If so then it will be registered automatically via its UUID (in BIOS) in the Microsoft W10 activation servers.

I have more modern boxes 50 feet away but that is running so well (as is W10 21H1 here) that I need to give it a try and keep that Z600 going.  Remember that the key to getting that Predator to work was to use the specific storage controller driver I found worked with the Predator under W7.  If W10 forces a driver update over what I used for that then it will likely break the Predator functionality.  It was pure luck that I did not stop after my first attempt with with the other storage driver installer HP offered failed... 

The way I got it to work initially under W7Pro64 was to build the system on an Intel SSD and then Acronis-capture that, and then Acronis -clone that to the Predator SSD.  That was quite some time ago... getting the Predator to show up in BIOS as a target boot drive was not easy, also.  W10, however, likes to force its will regarding drivers, and preventing that is not easy.

I can't make promises... why don't you do the work?

Life had gotten too busy and I may not be able to budget time for this legacy project.

[tamm0r]

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@SDH wrote:

I can't make promises... why don't you do the work?

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I'd love to do that but I don't even own said Predator card (yet). I hoped somebody already tried to get Windows 10 working on it so I can avoid the purchase if it's not possible. Getting a used card for an acceptable price is another story...

I'll report back if I manage to get such a card.

[SDH]

You can still find these used... they don't seem to wear out.  It the project works here then the news is good.

For others... in the Z600 generation the technology is SATA II, not SATA III native.  One can get a nice speed upgrade via running a Predator from a PCIe generation II slot in that workstation.  Modern MS security support would be nice to get back (if the card works under W10).  We figured out how to run that with W7Pro64... can it migrate forward?

[DGroves]

the predator ssd is a x2 pci-e card as i recall similar to the original HP z turbo card that originally came with a samsung xp941

windows 10 has a generic native nvme driver which supports booting from all known nvme (and sata) ssd's  note that the motherboard bios must also support nvme boot (which the z600/z800) lacks

if "SDH" can post some predator ssd benchmarks i have some other options you might want to consider

installing a PCI-E x2 SATA III 6GBps card using a marvel 9230 chip card will get you speeds just under twice the sata limit of 600MB/s when using two SATA SSD'S in raid 0

https://www.amazon.com/Marvell-88SE9230-Controller-Express-Profile/dp/B08CL14MQK

using a adaptec ASR-6805 SAS/SATA raid card with 2 sata ssd in raid 0 and optionally using two other ports for another raid 0 which is then raided into a raid 10 drive (this setup using 120/240 GB drives is rather fast)

the OCZ RevoDrive 3  and RevoDrive 3 x2 line of pci-e ssd's will also boot on a z600/z800 (the revodrive 2 line will not!!)

eBay  usually has some listed

RevoDrive 3 :

https://www.amazon.com/OCZ-Solutions-RevoDrive-PCI-Express-warranty/dp/B005F30IYU

RevoDrive 3 x2

https://techreport.com/review/22663/oczs-revodrive-3-x2-240gb-solid-state-drive/

using a software based nvme preloader (DUET/REFIND) PM me on this forum for details, it took me under 20 min to read the directions and install win 10 using this method, and while win 7 could be also done this way i suspect it's more involved due to win 7 not having native ssd support and needing the nvme drivers slipstreamed into it

if you are a tinkerer on your computer then DUET/REFIND is a great way to go, if you just want to "USE" your system hassle free then the marvell 9230 card setup or just a plain SATA SSD is the way to go if a predator drive can't be sourced

[SDH]

DGroves and I have posted on this...

The performance of a SATA III or SATA II drive in a Z600 (or any other SATA II workstation) is such a huge improvement over a HDD that few of us can tell the difference between that and a SATA III SSD running in a SATA III workstation (such as a Z620).  I personally had been using the Intel 320 series (SATA II) 300GB or 600GB SSDs from eBay in most of the Z600s we still have running.  New SATA III SSDs have come down so much in price that buying a used SATA II SSD pretty much no longer makes sense.

The Predator project was a huge time sink until I happened upon the solution.  It added a bit of snap to the feel of the build, and I am using two of the fastest processors and also matching fastest speed memory.  I would not build a Z600 up that way any more... it was a tinkerer's dream project, but many of us don't have time for that now.

I'd say DGroves approach above is less fiddly by quite a bit, and it will work with great certainty under W10.

So, again, I'll probably give the Predator-upgrade-to-W10 project one try and that will be down the road, maybe not until after summer.

I'd encourage you to not wait.... DGroves method will work much sooner!

Oh.... one last thing.  I don't need massive documents space inside my builds.  It is the nature of how we use them.  Many don't even have a second drive in place.  But for that Z600 at home with the Predator I put in a big SATA II Samsung Enterprise SSD that I tracked down on eBay used for very little cost.  It is a big improvement over HDD if you're like me and don't need a whole lot of documents storage space inside the box.

[DGroves]

to "SDH" i would simply try a clean win 10 install on the predator ssd and if unsuccessful quit and leave it at that

personally, i suspect the win 10 install will be successful as ms went to great lengths to insure the win 10 included generic drivers are compatible across numerous devices/OS's

[SDH]

DGroves... good advice.  If it works then that is the best solution for all.  I have 2 or 3 extras of those Predators so I can protect my known-good install, and keep BIOS settings all the same, and try that first.

If it fails I'll have the longer method to fall back on...

[tamm0r]

Thanks everyone for your support but I decided to upgrade to a Z440. The Z600 is used by my wife for digital art (Photoshop, After Effects etc.) and it served her pretty well so far, but its age is becoming more and more visible. She'd benefit from more RAM and fast scratch/swap space but with 48 GB and PCIe 2.0 we're on a dead end in that regard. Nonetheless it's impressive how far we got with a basically 12 years old machine. Thank you, litte Z600 😢

[DGroves]

don't get rid of the z600,.........................

you can still use it as a backup for the new z440

or consider using it just for banking/dedicated online purchase sites like amazon (IE-don't use for web browsing)

donate it to a non profit or school and take a tax write-off

use it for general web browsing (no banking or web purchases)