Need approved RAM List for Elitedesk 800 G2 Tower

[DGroves]

per HP  "G2" maintenance/service guide page 22

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04832374

DDR4-SDRAM DIMMs
For proper system operation, the DIMMs must be:
● industry-standard 288-pin
● unbuƫered non-ECC PC4-17000 DDR4-2133 MHz-compliant
● 1.2 volt DDR4-SDRAM DIMMs

The DIMMs must also:
● support CAS latency 15 DDR4 2133 MHz (15-15-15 timing)
● contain the mandatory JEDEC SPD information

In addition, the computer supports:
● 512-Mbit, 1-Gbit, and 2-Gbit non-ECC memory technologies
● single-sided and double-sided DIMMs
● DIMMs constructed with x8 and x16 DDR devices;

● DIMMs constructed with x4 SDRAM are not supported

NOTE: The system will not operate properly if you install unsupported DIMMs.

Populating DIMM sockets
There are four DIMM sockets on the system board, with two sockets per channel.

The sockets are labeled
DIMM1, DIMM2, DIMM3, and DIMM4.

Sockets DIMM1 and DIMM2 operate in memory channel B.

Sockets DIMM3 and DIMM4 operate in memory channel A.

Populate the black DIMM sockets before the white DIMM sockets.

The system will automatically operate in single channel mode,

dual channel mode, or flex mode, depending
on how the DIMMs are installed.

NOTE: Single channel and unbalanced dual channel memory conƭgurations

will result in inferior graphics performance.

these "Flex Mode" systems (like the 6300 pro / elite 8300) are extremely picky on type of ram, ram slot ordering, and which channel uses/requires the larger dimms installed, i've previously given him this information in previous posts however it appears to be ignored

to "SDH" .....most systems don't care that much about ram and the close enough "generic" ram method usually works but as i've said these "Flex" systems are a exception to the rule, they are quite picky on anything ram related

[SDH]

DGroves... thanks, good to know.

Then HP throws in a kicker to me with the attached image of a single rank stick of 8GB Samsung memory with the Assembly P/N of 798034-001 (same number as the dual rank 8GB stick I posted earlier in this thread). It is my understanding that you should never mix single and dual rank memory. If that is true then my understanding is wrong that if you get same HP Assembly P/N HP sticks you can mix those those sticks.

Regardless if I was buying memory for the OP's computer I'd make sure the sticks were either all single rank or all dual rank. Tricky business...

[DGroves]

for most systems,..... different memory ranks CANNOT be mixed within the same bank, as the cpu's integrated memory controller is unable to correctly ID single/dual modules within a bank of ram,....however newer intel cpu's appear to be able to cope with this and work

certain Intel systems have better performance with multi rank memory due to their onboard memory controllers.

This is especially true for LRDIMM server memory, or systems that support more than 64GB ram

for example my z820  has 8 DIMM slots per CPU.  There are four memory channels per CPU.  Each memory channel manages two DIMM slots

and my z800 (single CPU) had 3 memory banks, with each bank being 3 dimm slots

both workstations will not accept single/dual rank dimms within a memory channel  but will work fine if each channel is all single or dual rank dimms

the "G2" has dual banks with each bank being two dimm slots,

so chanel A can be single rank 4GB dimms

and chanel B dual rank 8GB dimms

i won't cover "Flex" mode where channels A/B are using different capacity dimms in quasi dual channel mode as i'm not really sure what would happen with single/dual rank in that case but i suspect it would be a no go based on the service manual information

the HP P/N 798034-001 is used in quite a few different consumer systems and some low-end business systems and does indeed come in single/dual rank dimms using the same HP part number which is why for these flex based systems and mission critical workstation/servers we always stick with one brand memory and buy in bulk when possible so each system runs exactly the same brand and build date for the ram so we don't have to worry about this issue ( i realise this is not practical for small businesses and single users) 

[SDH]

DGroves... again thanks much.  Great new knowledge for me and clearly this info is not easily found.  I've got some more to add of interest too:

If one tries to find the most recent QuickSpecs for the ED 800 G2 series the latest seems to be v31 from 2017.  I think at a point HP gives up on publishing new QuickSpecs and just puts out info on a web link:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04802690#AbT2

In that page if you search for "M.2" you'll see Z Turbo Drives listed, and in the "Architecture" section of their descriptions both AHCI- and NVMe-controller types are listed.  This is also what exists for the ZX40 workstations, and just like those workstations the ED 800 G2 TWR and SFF form factors have no on-motherboard M.2 "x4" electrical lanes socket. There is, however, an appropriate PCIe x16 (x4 electrical) slot available on that motherboard, plus a full PCIe x16 (x16 electrical lanes) for an add-on video card.  I believe those sockets are PCIe generation 2 type... might even be generation 3 type because the ZX40 has those (from the same era):

Because HP offered both AHCI- and NVMe-controller types for adding on M.2 drives I believe those came for these business class computers inserted in a ZTD G1 or ZTD G2 PCIe add-on card, to be inserted in the top white PCIe x16 (x4) slot. The faster AHCI-controller SM951 M.2 stick and the NVMe M.2 sticks probably would all benefit from the ZTD G2's nice heatsink (but we know both types of those cards can run either type of M.2 stick fine). I've recently bought two ZTD G1 PCIe cards (the HP card without the heatsink) brand new shipped from China for 10.00 USD total, each. I've also recently bought a couple of used ZTD G2 PCIe cards (those with the HP aluminum heatsink) for 20.00 USD total each. To OP: if you go this way make sure to communicate to the seller that they MUST include the HP designed black plastic/brass little hold-down screw device for the M.2 stick for those cards.

There is a post HERE that describes success using a non-HP PCIe card and a non-HP NVMe M.2 stick in a ED 800 G2 SFF/TWR motherboard which includes a picture of the card inserted in the top white PCIe x16 (x4) slot on a SFF motherboard (same motherboard is also used in the TWR version):

The OP referenced a BIOS upgrade notice discussing enabling of NVMe M.2 stick boot in all 4 versions of the ED 800 G2. I'm quite sure an AHCI-controller M.2 stick could be booted from the same way. I've attached that notice as a PDF below. The BIOS version from that time frame was 2.12, and it now 4.22 is 2.54.  There have been 23 BIOS upgrades since that April 2016 notice (!).

To OP... for BIOS upgrades I've found that to upgrade BIOS from within BIOS is the safest. I can explain that if you need... this BIOS is like that for the ZX40 family of workstations.  You harvest the .bin file and put it down in a series of 3 folders on a USB drive, and BIOS then knows to look down through those for the target .bin file. Earlier, with the ZX20 family of workstations, you just put the .bin file on the top level of a thumb drive.  You did a FAT32 format, used one of the USB2 sockets, you plugged in the USB stick when computer was fully shut down, and then you got into BIOS to choose the upgrade the BIOS version. You did not touch anything after you pulled the trigger... sometimes it would shut down automatically and reboot, twice...

To others: Use of the NVMe M.2 stick type is preferred over a SATA3 SSD or AHCI-controller M.2 stick for highest performance, and I too have been able to boot from HP and non-HP NVMe M.2 sticks using both the G1 and G2 versions of the HP Z Turbo Drive PCIe cards in my Z440.  I prefer to use HP M.2 sticks because there could possibly be firmware issues for non-HP sticks (but have not run into that with my Lenovo sticks). There is a recently released Lenovo NVMe firmware update suite that allows doing Lenovo FW updates of their M.2 sticks that I discovered, and that Lenovo software wants to be run from a laptop (so I used a HP laptop with a free M.2 socket booted from its SATA3 SSD). It can probe any NVMe Lenovo M.2 stick for available FW update from a PC/workstation, but only can do the update from a laptop.

[Mealticket]

Alright, well I used CMOS reset procedure from SDH and installed the two 4GB Hynix sticks in the black DIMM slots. No joy, very disappointing. It boots and shows only DIMM1, like before. 

Regarding single and dual rank, yeah, I am halfway down that rabbit trail as of yesterday...turns out that the 8th digit of the Crucial P/N is either 'S' for single rank, or 'D' for dual rank. And although I ordered the 'S' from an eBay seller per the Crucial site, I received 'D'. That's on me; I should have noticed that right away. I was on chat with Crucial support yesterday and they said that 'D' is not compatible, and of course 'S' is. Now that could well be marketing, or a new reality of market conditions, as a guy I follow on uTube says that he is noticing more single rank sticks shipping now, rather than dual. And, I think looking at other higher GB sticks for this machine on that same Crucial memory finder, some are 'D'. And the Kingston that came in my tower (I was actually able to find a datasheet on it), are dual rank. But, in a moment of weakness, I ordered the specified single rank modules directly from Crucial because of the guarantee. Yeah, I would not mix single and dual rank on the same channel; that's not what's happening here.

I see no reason to throw the dual rank 8GB Crucials back in there. I think I'll wait for the modules direct from Crucial, and if they don't work, which I suspect they won't, I'll send them back.

When I have done the BIOS updates I have used the online interface the easy way, and not done anything within BIOS. I feel a headache coming on...I guess I will have to learn how to do that next. Thanks,

Just Shoot Me (aka Mealticket)

[DGroves]

when you install the ram modules that crucial recommends i suspect all of your memory issues will disappear and if so perhaps you might let "SDH" and I know along with all the other readers of this thread

[Mealticket]

DGroves - I will do that,

MT

[SDH]

Hey MT... It turns out the more recent BIOS type used by your ED 800 G2 and the ZX40 workstations (and beyond) has gotten more sophisticated and yes it can do a BIOS update from within BIOS and get its .bin file over the network to do that with. I'd say it is near equal to my thumb drive approach.

Our enterprise owns a few Z640s in a hospital setting that I watch over and keep updated. For security on that in-house network there are some creative addressing/firewall settings.  This newer BIOS is smart enough to get out to the internet from those boxes but one is locked down a bit tighter with NAT and other things and that particular Z640 can't get out via the simplistic networking that BIOS has available to it. So for that one I need to do it my thumb drive way.  You're safe if you can do it via BIOS going out on the internet to get the latest .bin file, but I'd be happy to let you know the USB drive way if you want. It is simple.

You'll get this working well, and then you might want to get a nice lightly used M.2 stick and a 20.00 ZTD G2 card. My recently acquired Lenovo 1TB stick had only 200 hours on it, for 110.00 USD.

[Mealticket]

SDH - would it be as simple as going into BIOS and selecting 'Update BIOS'? Will there be an issue if it sees that ver. 2.54 is already installed? BTW, I am running a 256GB Silicon Power NVMe M.2 SSD with a PCIe adapter for my boot drive.

Thanks,

MT

[SDH]

Yes if the BIOS has been set up to allow it to go out on the net to the special HP BIOS .bin servers. No problem if you were to update BIOS again to the same version... you can rerun the updater more than once but it is pretty much a waste of time (and a tiny risk as there is with any FW update). The latest BIOS will have all the fixes built in from the past.  There are only a few rare HP cases where you need to step up to a certain level before you can take a next big jump from what you have to the latest.

My recall on this newer type of BIOS is that you have to enable BIOS upgrade from network in BIOS (as a change from defaults). Then you can choose to select update BIOS over network and go ahead from there.  If networking is simple enough BIOS can go talk with the HP BIOS .bin server and get the latest .bin download that way. In my example of the really locked down Z640 I instead need to choose a little different pathway in BIOS, and place the set of 3 nested properly named folders there on the thumb drive. There can be other things now on that drive. This later type of BIOS has the smarts to use USB3 ports and I think NTFS formatted larger thumb drives.  In the prior older BIOS of the ZX20 workstations (and before) BIOS did not have the smarts to use a USB3 stick, a bigger stick, and non-FAT32 formatted USB sticks. Things have gotten better...

What I can add if you want is how to harvest the .bin file from the HP SoftPaq. I've found I can just put that nest of 3 directories on the top level of pretty much any USB drive now, with the .bin file down in the lowest one, and these newer BIOS builds know how to find the .bin.

I'll probably just go ahead and make a PDF HowTo for you and future readers... As long as you don't do the upgrade from within W10 you'll be fine, and even with that you'd probably be safe these days.  Some of us have bricked motherboards by not doing the BIOS upgrade from within BIOS or DOS but HP probably has fixed that risk by now. I don't take that chance, however, because my way is so easy and has never bricked a motherboard. And I have upgraded many.