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04-12-2020 04:54 PM
I have just acquired a Z400 and am going to use it to replace my aging PC.
I managed to pick up a cheap Radeon 7850 graphics card.. And have bought a Samsung 860 SSD as the boot drive and a Seagate IronWolk 4TB as my Data drive... And the last thing I want to add is USB3.
I have read that I need to source an HP card with the Ti chipset (Part No: 661320-001 or 663213-001), but I am struggling to source such a thing in the UK.
Does anyone know of any other reasonably priced/easily sourced PCIe cards that will work?
The VIA chipset version is easily sourced, but does anyone know if this would work? Is my only option a card based on the Ti chipset, or is there an alternative.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts you have.
04-12-2020 09:21 PM - edited 04-12-2020 09:57 PM
Jon, Start begging.
You don't "need" USB3 that works as HP engineered it to in your new-to-you workstation. You just should have it, so contact one of the US eBay sellers and beg for a reasonable price to pay for shipping. Tell them you can wait for the shipment to round Cape Horn if need be. Remember that their sales are down, be courteous, and beg. You can get by with USB2 as you wait for the correct item.
Then follow my post in here on how to do it. Works great also with W10Pro64.
04-13-2020 01:09 AM
you can also get usb 3.1 gen 2 cards (10MBps speeds instead of 5MBps for gen 1 usb 3.0 cards) for the pci-e 2.0 bus the z400/800/600 use but be aware these cards are not cheap they cost around 55/60 dollars but if you need/want the fastest this is it both cards use the asmedia chipset and have native win 10 driver support
these asmedia chips came out after the z 200/400/600/800 systems were EOL'ed so hp never tested them but in my tests on several systems with different usb 3.1 devices attached to the card(s) they outperform the HP/TI chip card and are just as reliable and trouble free
front usb only (gen 2)
front usb (gen 1) + rear usb (gen 2)
04-13-2020 04:30 AM
Thanks all... To be honest, I don't NEED USB3 at all.. I don't have it currently and don't really have a need for it... I would like to add it, but if its going to cost a fortune I won't bother.
Its a shame as I am pretty sure I had an option on a Z420 (which i now know has USB3), but I didn't think of it at the time.. And now with the CV situation, its impossible to get out to try and swap it... Perhaps this is a project for another day? I wonder if I could just build the Z400, and then swap the drives/cards into a Z420 at a later date??? Thats a project for another day.
The purpose of my post was to find out whether there wasn't any other USB3 card that worked.. To be honest, I am a little surprised why ANY PCI-E card won't work.. After all, its just a generic Win10 PC with an HP motherboard.. If a Radeon Graphics card works, then when not a VIA USB3 for example?
I did look on ebay.com for one of the correct parts (663213-001/661320-001) but didn't find anything 'cheap'.
I have found something in the UK which is interesting and wonder if you can help me with:
This has the correct part number, but the photo is of the wrong (NEC) version... There are 3 optionos.
1. These part numbers are shared across both varients
2. The photo is wrong, and he is selling the correct card
3. The photo is right and has has the wrong part number.
I have sent him a message to clarify, so I will have to see if he has stocks of the correct (Ti) card... If not, I am not sure where to source one.
I am still open to suggestions, so if anyone has any thoughts I look forwards to hearing from you
Cheers.. Stay Safe all.
04-13-2020 04:34 AM - edited 04-13-2020 04:35 AM
So the asmedia chip set is working for you? I am sure I found some cards with that chip....
Interestingly in that link you sent (front and rear USB), the photo of the chip shows VLI which I believe is VIA..
So I just wonder if I am over thinking this and perhaps should just try one of the £5 VIA cards I have seen just to rule it out.
Edit: I just looked a bit closer and the card has TWO chips.. one VLI and one Asmedia.. So clearly its not just a VIA card.
04-13-2020 06:58 AM - edited 04-13-2020 07:18 AM
There is a "kit" put together by a US eBay company that gets you both the proper card and the nice HP 5.25 to 3.5 form factor adapter so you can mount the front two USB3 ports easily in a spare 5.25" front bay...... HERE .
The alan_computech_intl guys have been easy to work with in the past. Make sure to communicate your exact needs on that card if you proceed.
For others who have not seen my prior post on how to do this: HERE is the link. Note that the same methods can be used with other cards that let you also get the fast ports up front. That is handy.....
DGroves has tested those other cards, newer technology, and he won't steer you wrong. Regarding the Z420.... better newer technology and what I'd buy if I was starting a project today but make sure you get the version 2 motherboard type as we've posted about in the forum, based on knowing the boot block date or how to read the printing on the bar code label stuck on the motherboard. However, the Z400 I'm typing on here in our home library is no slouch with its X5690 hexacore and SATA II Intel 320 series big SSD working just fine for years on end. I have other newer HP workstations within easy reach but I just keep using this one day in and day out. It has my USB3 kit in..... rarely "need" it.
With computers you'll always have buyer's remorse if you overthink things.
04-13-2020 08:59 AM
Thanks for the info.. Shipping from the US makes this a non-starter... I am going to keep looking in the UK.
Fortunately, I hardly ever, if ever need anything so fast that I need USB3.. That said, I would quite like to try my Oculus Quest out, so USB3 would be nice.. But I am not going to loose much sleep if I can't get a USB3 solution.
I acquired my Z400 from a clearout I was doing in my works Data center.. We scrapped about 20 x Z400s in favour of the Z800s we also have... I probably could have blagged a Z800 if I wanted, but I heard that a Z400 made a better "home" computer than a Z800.
I know there was atleast one Z420 there And knowing what I know now, I could have made a play for that one.. But with the current C.V situation I can't do much about it and should be happy with what I have... (I actually took 2xZ400s so I have a full set of spares should anything go wrong which is nice).
The model I have is good spec.. I am pretty sure its the V2 motherboard as its got the 6 dimm slots.. And we have them stacked with memory (24gb I believe).. And its got the W3680 CPU too... The graphics card (Quadro FX 380) is a bit poor, but I managed to get a Radeon 7850 for less than £30, so it will make a nice machine.. The Graphics card is a bit of an overkill as I don't use it for games or any graphics intensive task.. But its nice to have if I need it.
I still wonder if a cheap VIA/VLI based USB 3 card would work... I am tempted to buy one, just to see what happens...
You mention DGroves.. Is he a user here? Are you suggesting he has tried other USB3 cards?
04-13-2020 09:53 AM - edited 04-13-2020 10:48 AM
the card i recommend has TWO chips on it (look closely) one VIA and one ASMEDIA
VIA usb 3.0 chips are not recommended, they have several known issues, all i would use one for is for a mouse and possibly a keyboard
there is a reason why the TI and ASMedia cards cost more, and two reasons are the usb chip itself and the card (pcb/design quality)
buying on price alone is not the way to go if you want a trouble free system some things should not be scrimped on and if you will be using various usb devices or need reliable speed/operation then a quality device is a must!
04-13-2020 09:54 AM - edited 04-13-2020 10:03 AM
See DGrove's post third from the top in your thread, this one, about 12" up. He is an IT professional we're lucky to have, and he has personally tested some of the alternative advanced generation USB PCIe cards. I'm sure you know about USB3.1 generation 1 versus USB3.1 generation 2. If not read up on that so you can make an informed choice if you'd consider getting the 10Gbps type. There must be some 3.5" device that lets you run USB3.1 gen 2 from the card to the front like my choice of the Akasa device (for USB3.1 gen 1 in the new terminology.... 5Gbps). There is a 2 x 10 header on the butt end of the card that is a motherboard type header so you can run adapter cable with two usb lines from the card to wherever you want it to land.
Note that you can get USB3.1 generation 2 with both a Type A and a Type C connector. What a mishmash, especially for someone who can get by fine with USB2.
Yes.... 6 memory slots = v2 on your two Z400s, without exception.
04-13-2020 10:08 AM
we had a client who needed to backup data from his NAS to a removable device for offsite storage on a daily basis, his NAS had one pci-e x4 slot and we used the usb 3.1 gen 2 card to get 10 mbps speeds a slower card may not be able to xfer his data overnight in the future as he fills the NAS drive slots with drives
you could also place the USB card in a local PC and xfer data across the network, if your NAS lacks a PCI-E slot which we did for a different client
we went with a 3rd party card in both cases for various reasons, but price was one of them the qnap card is a asmedia based card from a unknown vender (qnap does not make cards they use 3rd party ones) and qnap wants a substantial amount for their card which is why we validated our card choice
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