Xeon CPU upgrade

[Julz77]

I have a 3 year old Z620 and the minimum system requirements for some recently installed software is beyond the capabilities of my existing setup.

The current CPU is an Intel Xeon E5-2620 v2 @ 2.10GHz (The software recommendation is an i7 @ 3.0GHz). The existing RAM, VRAM and  HDD space is ok.

Short of buying a whole new box, is it possible to swap out the CPU to something like a faster v2 or even a v3 Xeon chip and would I have to upgrade other components at the same time (power, thermal control etc)?

I was thinking either a Intel Xeon E5-1620 v2 @ 3.70GHz or Intel Xeon E5-1650 v3 @ 3.50GHz. Keep in mind I'm a complete noob when it comes to this sort of thing.

cheers

Julz

[SDH · Accepted solution]

The short answer is yes.

The longer answer:

1.  The fact that you have a slow E5-2620 v2 processor is good news because that means you have a version 2 of the Z620 motherboard, which can run both the v2 (Ivy Bridge) and the older v1 processors (Sandy Bridge).  You can read up in here a bit on "boot block date" differences between the older and the newer motherboard versions, and you can see your boot block date in your BIOS.  There is an older version 1 of the E5-2620 Sandy Bridge family of processors, but it goes by E5-2620 rather than E5-2620 v1.

2.  Most of the HP workstations have a "microcode" built into their BIOS that specifies what processors are allowed to run.... just because it should be able to run does not mean that it will run, and for this reason you should pick from the list of approved HP processors for your Z620 version.  You can find that in the most recent version of the Z620 QuickSpecs, which I believe is version 46.  Google and find that.  On pages 3-4 you'll see the list of approved processors.  A side note..... if you had a version 1 older motherboard you'd find a similar list in much earlier versions of the QuickSpecs.  You'd notice there will be no Intel "v2" processors listed in these older Z620 QuickSpecs.

3.  Because the microcode generally limits the allowed processors and because it is mixed in with the BIOS you want to update your Z620 to the latest version of BIOS before you do anything else.

4.  It is an option to add a Z620 mini-motherboard to the main motherboard, and then add a second processor onto that mini-motherboard plus more memory up there.  The second processor must match the first.  If a Z620 started with only 1 processor that processor may not be of a type that can accept a second identical processor..... the first one has to have 2 QPI links built in (as does the second), and those type of processors cost more.  Thus, many single-processor Z620s were sold with a processor having only one QPI link.  You can look up the processors on the Intel "ark" site (ark will be in the address) and easily see if it has 1 or 2 QPI links.  Only a two QPI link processor can talk to the motherboard and another processor simultaneously, for required coordination.

5.  If you look at the v46 Z620 QuickSpecs you'll see memory speeds listed...... 1333, 1600, 1866.  Even really slow 1066.  You'll want a processor that can go at the faster speeds, because a slower processor will down-shift the speed of your memory to that same slower speed even if you have memory that is rated for the faster speeds.  Personally I'd only look at the 1866 speeds.

6.  QPI speed in GT/second..... I'd only look at the 8.0.  You're wanting to max out performance.

7.  You'll note that there are different max Wattages of the processors.  The good news is that the stock Z620 heatsink/fan combo are of the "Performance" type rather than the "Mainstream" type, so you should not have to upgrade that if you go with a higher wattage processor.

8.  Your E5-2620 v2 has 6 cores, runs 2 steps down from the fastest at 1333 MHz, runs one stop down from the fastest QPI speed, and draws 95W max TDP (Intel says 80).  If you google "E5-2620 v2" the top link (the ark one from Intel) gives you more info.  It has 2 QPI links, so you could add a second.  If you go on the left to ordering and compliance you'll find the single sSpec code it has (SR1AN) and if you look that up on eBay for a used one it currently will cost about $50.00 USD including shipping.  I only buy eBay processors from US sellers with good reputations, and have only had a couple of easily resolved issues from buying over 50 used processors this way.

I use the Noctua NT-H1 thermal paste.  Read up on how to clean off old thermal paste, apply new paste, and tighten down the heatsink properly.  Tighten down until the screws just barely start to bottom out.... never ever beyond that because you can strip the screw threads or rotate the compressed-in round nut in its sheet metal holder beneath the motherboard.  Don't ask how I know......

9.  Memory.... you want to match up your new faster processor with same or greater speed memory, and it is best to fill your available memory slots with matching memory.  Filling all slots this way is emphasized by a trusted HP engineer.  You may already have the fastest memory in place but it will just be running slower than it could with a faster processor.

10.  Cooling..... I virtually always will add in a HP front case fan if a workstation does not have that.

That's enough for now.  I'd make a spread sheet of only the top 8 or 10 processors, and get their sSpec codes from the Intel ark site, and find current used prices on eBay for those.  If there are more than one sSpec code for a processor you'd always want to buy the later version because it has Intel improvements built in.

There are some real Z620 experts in this forum who can offer great advice from their experiences on the v2 processors/motherboards, and whether adding a used mini-motherboard and a second E5-2620 v2 would be a good idea or not.

[Brian1965]

Hi Julz77,

May I enquire what software you are planning on using? My reason for asking is that some software prefers higher 'single threaded' performance whereas other software is dependant on the number of CPU cores for best performance. Generally there is a trade off in this area.

The short answer is that your current Z620 will accept any of the E5-16xx or E5-26xx V1 or V2 CPU's as listed in the Z620 quickspecs, (since you have a 2013 boot block date motherboard). The Z620 does NOT support V3 or V4 Xeon CPU's. The E5-16xx CPU's only work in a single CPU configuration, the E5-26xx CPU's can be used in either single or dual CPU configuration.

Whichever CPU you select then you may want to consider upgrading the RAM (speed) to the fastest supported by the chosen CPU as mentioned in SDH's post above. This does make a significant and noticeable improvement in system performance and responsiveness.

[MtothaJ]

---

@Julz77 wrote:

I have a 3 year old Z620 and the minimum system requirements for some recently installed software is beyond the capabilities of my existing setup.

The current CPU is an @INTEL Xeon E5-2620 v2 @ 2.10GHz (The software recommendation is an i7 @ 3.0GHz). The existing RAM, VRAM and  HDD space is ok.

Short of buying a whole new box, is it possible to swap out the CPU to something like a faster v2 or even a v3 Xeon chip and would I have to upgrade other components at the same time (power, thermal control etc)?

I was thinking either a Intel Xeon E5-1620 v2 @ 3.70GHz or Intel Xeon E5-1650 v3 @ 3.50GHz. Keep in mind I'm a complete noob when it comes to this sort of thing.

cheers

Julz

---

If staying with a single processor setup, and if single core performance is important, definietly consider the E5-1650v2 or E5-1660v2.

With the release of newer gen CPU's, prices for these have recently fallen quite considerably and by spending a relatively modest sum for the CPU upgrade you can have a  machine that will still be able to compete with the newest gen systems.

Also check what RAM speed you have. THe above 2 E5-v2 CPU's are able of running at 1866mhz, my view is that if you have 1600mhz RAM installed than it is not worth upgrading since the difference between 1866mhz and 1600mhz is probably not worth the cost, but anything lower than 1600mhz would make it worth to step up (and possibly increase the total amount of RAM if that is something which you might benefit from). There are cheap ECC Reg RAM kits on ebay which work fine in the Zx20 so if upgrading it may be worth selling your existing RAM and going for one of these kits. 

[Julz77]

Thanks everyone.

Brian, the software is basically the 3D modelling applications that come with Adobe CC. The Nvidia graphics card is a 4Gb Quadro which is plenty capable according to the recommendations.

I'm kinda hoping the right processor upgrade could deliver a good cost and future proof benefit for a couple more years without compromising stability.

Your advice is greatly appreciated

[Julz77]

MyothaJ, I never considered the RAM implications. I'm more than happy to upgrade that at the same time for other reasons so ill include that in the upgrade

[LaurentiuG]

Hey guys,

I need some help here with my old HP8000 smal from factory, because I want to upgrade from E8400 CPU, to Xeon 5450 and I want to know if I can put it on HP chipset Q45(also there is Q43 near it)

There is some bios update I can do to can upgrade my sistem, please?

Thank you,

Laurentiu

[BambiBoomZ]

Julz77,

For the best perofrmance in 3D CAD, a single CPU with a high single-thread performance is optimal.  That is, you want the processor that produces the most calculation cycles per unit time on a single core and that means having the highest obtainable clock speed.

The complication to choosing the best processor is the number of cores you need. If you are strictly 3D modeling, a 4-core is best as the fewer the cores, the higher the clock speed.  The E5-1620 V2 4-core is 3.7 / 3.9GHz Turbo and these days only costs about $80 (11.17), and that would be my choice-  if  the work is 90% 3D modeling, as the all core base frequency is the highest of any E5.

If you are using several applications at once and doing any CPU-based rendering or exensive image processing, the E5-1650 v2 is 6C@ 3.5 /3.9 GHz at about $130, the E5-1660 v2 is 6C@3.7/4.0 and about $260, and the E5-1680 v2 is 8C@3.3/3.8GHz and now about $450. The great feature of these three is that all of them can be overclocked on an HP z-series WS using the Intel Extreme tuning Utility. Our Forum friends MtothaJ's E5-1650 v2 and Brian1965's E5-1680 v2 both use that application I use it to run an E5-1680 v2 at 4.3GHz on all 8-cores and my previous system, a z420 ran an E5-1660 v2 at 4.2GHz on all cores. The Passmark single thread performance of the E5-1680 v2 is 2339 and the E5-1660 v2 scores 2322. The E5-1680 v2 maintains it's base (idle) frequency of 3.3GHz while the 1650 v2 will be 3.7 and the 1660 v2 runs at 3.9.

The best value and versatile of the three is the E5-1650 v2 and that would be my choice. I've found that CPU rendering with 6-cores is not too painful as the higher clock speed compensates a bit for the fewer cores and CPU rendering programs seems to peak their core utilization at 5-6 cores (*see the Puget Systems articles on that subject). If you are heavily CPU rendering, have the 8-core E5-1680 v2.

Overclock it moderately (perhaps the resident expert on the E5-1650 v2, MtothaJ will have suggestions).

For the 6-core (and 8-core) choices, if you overclock, consider adding a z420 liquid cooler: 

This installs without any modifcation, using the orignal electrical power /control connection.

I use the z420 liquid cooler with the E5-1680 v2 in a z620 and while it precludes adding a 2nd CPU, so does an E5-1600 series anyway. the systems idles at 26C and never goes over 64C even when CPU rendering.

The other recommendations in this thread to look into the RAM configuration are good ones. My thought these days is to have 64GB or at least buy modules that will allow it later.  The z420 / E5-1660 v2 with 32GB ran out of memory when setting up single 3180 X 2140 renderings- it needed 37+ to set up and then used 17GB in steady state. I you're rendering on the GPU, then 32GB is OK, but I'd still leave room for 64GB later.

BambiBoomZ

HP z620_2 (2017) (Rev 2) > Xeon E5-1680 v2 (8-core@ 4.3GHz)  / z420 Liquid Cooling / 64GB DDR3-1866 ECC Reg / Quadro P2000 5GB / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB / HP/LSI 9212-41 RAID Controller + Intel 730 480GB + HGST 4TB + Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB / ASUS Essence STX PCIe sound card / 825W PSU /> Windows 7 Prof.’l 64-bit  > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H  (2560 X 1440) / Logitech z2300 2.1 Sound
[ Passmark Rating =  6322 / CPU rating = 17178 / 2D = 852 / 3D= 9012 / Mem = 3032 / Disk = 14227 /  Single Thread Mark = 2339  [7.3.17]

HP z420_2 (2015) (Rev 5) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 (6-core @ 3.7 / 4.2GHz)  / 32GB DDR3 -1866 ECC RAM  / Quadro P2000 (4GB) / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI + Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) + Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX  1TB> Creative SB X-Fi Titanium + Logitech z2300 2.1 speakers  > 600W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H  (2560 X 1440)
[ Passmark Rating = 5920 > CPU= 15129 / 2D= 855 / 3D= 8945 / Mem= 2906 / Disk= 8576]  [6.12.16]  Single-Thread Mark = 2322 [4.20.17]

[GenesisXeon]

Hey, 

sorry for my late answer, but i want to overclock my Xeon 1650 v1 on my Z420 v2 Montherboard 
and all the intel XTU options for overclocking are greyed out, can't use them. 
I also tried different older versions. 

I use my Z420 sometimes as gaming PC with a GTX 1080 and the stock clock of the CPU is often bottlenecking,
so i wanna OC the thing. 

How did you manage to use intel XTU to overclock ? 

[BambiBoomZ]

GenesisXeon,

The problem with XTU with an E5-1650 first version is that there is a limited number of Xeon E5's that may be overclocked using the Intel Extreme Tuning utility XTU: the E5-1650 v2 and v3, E5-1660 v2 (6C) and v3 (8C), E5-1680 v2 and v3.  No first version E5-1600 can run XTU- nor any E5-2600 of any version.

On Passmark baselines, the highest Turbo clock speed for an HP is a z420 running at 4.3GHz.

If changing to an E5 v2, also consider the E5-1660 v2 6C@ 3.7/4.0GHz as it starts with a higher all core speed. On certain motherboards, this is being run at up to 4.6GHz and in HP z420, up to 4.3GHz.

If overclocking either of these, strongly consider the HP z420 liquid cooler.  This morning I ran a 1-hour, 100% utilization stress test on an E5-1680 v2 with all eight cores at 4.3GHz, and with the z420 cooler in the z620, the maximum temperature was 71C where the maximum rating for the E5-1680 v2 is 85C.

Also, it may be necessary to try more than one version of XTU.  I assume that there is microcode that may have changed over time and after trying three newer versions including 6.0.2.8, I ended up using 5.2.0.14, which is more contemporary with the E5-1680 v2.  And , be patient, and after some short stress tests, run the final setup using Prime 95  or similar an entire day to ensure stability. 

BambiBoomZ