Z server M.2 options totally confusing

[fantonio]

I'm lookin' to buy an Z2 G8 Tower.  The storage options are completely confusing.   In the M.2 storage options, there are THREE options for each size.  There is no information on the web site explaining the differences, no pictures, no information about what each one is.  I tried a "chat", but the HP person was not helpful. She didn't have the vocabularly or technical background required to understand the question.

I looked at the usermanual, maintenence manual, quickspecs ... no help.

Here are the three 2TB options...

A.   2 TB PCIe NVMe TLC M.2 SSD
B.   2 TB HP Z Turbo Drive TLC M.2 SSD
C.   2 TB Z Turbo Drive OPAL 2 Self-Encrypted (SED) M.2 TLC SSD

What I want seems straightforward.  I just want a little NVMe M.2 card in the M.2 slot on the motherboard.

These options all say "M.2".  ???

I tried looking up "Z Turbo Drive" to see what that meant exactly, and I found many references on the web, but apparently HP has used this phrase to brand PCIe plug-in cards that hold M.2 cards and at other times to refer to M.2 cards alone.  That makes it ambiguous as heck.  I note that only option A says "NVMe".  Does that mean that the other options are not NVMe?  Seems hard to believe that they might be offering an M.2 option that is not NVMe.

What is going on here?  Are these different speed options?  Or is one a PCIe card and another is an M.2 card?  I note that they are ALL THE SAME PRICE, which would seem to indicate that its not a speed thing, else they would be different prices, eh?

[DGroves]

im not sure why you are confused..................

the HP quickspecs answers most of your questions, and 3rd party reviews also go over the options fairly thoroughly

the hp turbo drive if you googled it would show you that it's simply a PCI-E card

with a nvme M.2 socket for a normal 2280 SSD

OPAL 2 Self-Encrypted, simply means the SSD has security Encryption,

again a simple google search will cover in detail what OPAL encryption is

perhaps you are unaware that there are TWO DIFFRENT Z2 G8 systems? a SFF model and then the Mini tower model and the Z 2 Mini

https://www.storagereview.com/review/hp-z2-g8-tower-workstation-review

https://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c07065867

i suggest you talk to someone who is a bit more knowledgeable such as your local computer shop,

your questions indicate you have a very basic understanding of computer parts/terminology

[fantonio]

Well Dgroves, the info you provided is not correct.

If you look at the quickspecs for the Z2 G8 Tower, you will note that BOTH options A and B are described as "Form Factor M.2 in native Slot on motherboard".  This is true for the one they call "Z Turbo" and the one they do not. 

Therefore, the quickspecs does NOT explain the difference between options A and B.

Even the review you cited at storagereview.com says the following

"Our review unit has two M.2 Type-2280 solid-state drives; the one with the Samsung logo is a Samsung PM9A1 Gen4 drive. HP brands it as a Z Turbo SSD and does not guarantee the same drive is used in all configurations. The other M.2 Type-2280 slot is Gen3. Both M.2 Type-2280 slots are x4."

In other words, the thing HP called a "Z Turbo" drive was an M.2 card, plugged into one of the M.2 sockets on the motherboard, not a PCIe card with an M.2 drive on it.  They even include a picture of the M.2 card on the motherboard, showing it was a samsung drive. 

Thus, the review does not explain the difference between options A and B.

[DGroves]

the z2 G8 uses a M.2 connector on the motherboard or a normal normal PCI-e based z turbo card

below are 3 different z turbo m.2 products, all take standard 2280 ssd's

PCI-E card

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/116529.pdf

Direct M.2 socket on motherboard for standard 2280 nvme ssd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj0O8sJ-gus

Direct M.2 socket on motherboard  for standard 2280 nvme ssd

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1498829-REG/hp_5rr64aa_smart_buy_z_turbo.html

PCI-E card with multiple M.2 sockets

https://www.hp.com/us-en/workstations/z-turbo-drive-g3.html

[VH2000]

It is like this:
When you are an ordinary consumer without a solid background knowledge you are lost.

If you are working in a small company and you call the sales department you are lucky when you have someone on the phone who knows what a chipset and a sata controller in the southbridge is.

When you are calling from a big company they come to your office with a big delegation. They hope to go back with a big order.

Some call it "Turbo Drive", some call it "Rocket Drive" and I just call it what it is: PCIe extension card for M.2 NVMe SSDs. No Turbo and no Rocket. The price is less than 20 $.

The answer given by DGroves is confusing as well: A standard M.2 SSD (2280) has a B-Key, a standard M.2 PCIe drive is a NVMe and has a M-Key.

In detail:
1. PCI-E card:
HP Z Turbo Drive G2 PCIe SSD
"Improve the way you work and get ultra-fast I/O response to process large data sets with the second generation HP Z Turbo Drive."
Write Bandwidth 1550 MB/s ! That is a lame duck
A standard Samsung EVO Plus has more than 3300 MB/s, even on an old Z-420 attached to a M.2 PCIe extension card.

2. Direct M.2 socket on motherboard for standard 2280 nvme ssd (YouTube)

That is not a 2280 NVMe drive! It has a B-Key and it is a standard M.2 SSD and it is installed on a Z4 G4 Workstation.
The manual doesn't mention this at all! So I suppose that it is connected to the SATA controller on the chipset. It will not support NVMe Drives.
But the point is that you don't find any information if a M-Key SSD is supported.

3. Direct M.2 socket on motherboard for standard 2280 nvme ssd
A SSD kit with a 512 GB M-Key NVMe for a price that is beyond any competition.

4. PCI-E card with multiple M.2 sockets
Surprising, that it comes with Samsung SSD NVMe drives.

But is all that the answer to Fantonio's question?

To find the right answer, you have to check 3 different documents.
At least an illustration of the system board connections is given in the Maintenance and Service guide.

If someone wants to check that for a Z4 G4 Workstation he will not find. It's just not there!

[DGroves]

the main issue here is that many don't understand the basic terminology which i have to admit can be confusing

1 computers can use either the older SATA interface or the newer NVME interface for data transfer, and ssd's in the M.2 format use keyed slots on the SSD to denote if SATA or NVME and they are called (B or M keyed)

2 the M.2 interface connector is just that a interface it can be wired up as a connector for SATA ssd or nvme ssd or as a PCI interface for wireless cards,.... the connector is the same for all three, but the wiring/data signals are different for each

3. ssd's can come in the 2.5/3.5 formats that are also used by spinning mechanical hard drives or as what people call gumstick size or M.2 (which is incorrect for a ssd) the more correct name is 2280/2260/2240 which denotes the width/length of the gumstick that fits into the M.2 socket

3 a PCI-E card that has a M.2 socket is no different than a motherboard that has a M,2 socket, both take the gumstick format ssd's and will be either SATA or NVME

4 there are other SSD/HD interfaces but these are not consumer oriented and not usually found in retail channels

the HP z2 G4 can use TWO 2280 NVME ssd via it's onboard M.2 connectors or a PCI-E based card with a M.2 and this is a very very common configuration that many many newer motherboards support

here's  links showing the placement of the NVME M.2 slots and the that the interface is NVME not SATA

https://www.crucial.com/compatible-upgrade-for/hp---compaq/hp-z2-g4-tower-workstation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj0O8sJ-gus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLMf4zr2TuE

I don't know where VH2000 got the write speed of 1550 Mb/s but it's wrong

the HP z4 G2 supports the PCI-E 4 or 3 standard for the main m.2 slot and PCI-E 3 (possibly 4 also) for the second M.2 socket

here's a crucial SSD spec for the Z2 G4 Tower/SFF systems:

Crucial P5 Plus 500GB PCIe M.2 2280SS SSD

• CT500P5PSSD8
• Configuration ID: CT20131014

500GB M.2 SSD • PCIe NVMe Gen 4 • 6600 MB/s Read, 4000 MB/s Write

https://www.crucial.com/compatible-upgrade-for/hp---compaq/hp-z2-g4-tower-workstation

https://www.crucial.com/compatible-upgrade-for/hp---compaq/hp-z2-g4-small-form-factor-workstation

[VH2000]

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@DGroves wrote:

I don't know where VH2000 got the write speed of 1550 Mb/s but it's wrong

---

Just check your own link from above. It is a HP Datasheet!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/116529.pdf

[DGroves]

not being a z8/6/4 series user i can understand you not knowing that the HP  z turbo drive G2 pci-e card you linked to will not work on any other system EXCEPT for the models HP posted (Supported Platforms are HP Z440, HP Z640, HP Z840 Workstations due to HP engineering this card to not work on any other systems

this card was only available from HP with the OEM samsung SM951 nvme drive in 256 or 512GB sizes and this MLC based ssd is STILL ONE OF THE FASTEST ssd's even when compared to most current consumer ssd's

also the 1550MBs number you reference is the drives SUSTAINED (not theoretical peak speed) it's able do when transfering files that are 1meg in size  you will not see consumer ssd's post this number because their speed will be much lower. HP lists the write speeds for 1meg and Random Write IOPS 4KB which again is a number consumer drives will not mention as it will be much lower all consumer drives post useless theoretical PEAK SPEEDS, rather than sustained speeds because the larger number of the peak speed makes the drive look better than it actually is 

for those interested in real world useful information the links below should be helpful, note the samsung' 970 evo's sustained  iops is lower than the sm951

https://www.promax.com/blog/maximum-vs.-sustained-performance-whats-the-difference

https://www.storagereview.com/review/samsung-ssd-970-evo-review