Z2 Mini G9 PCIe cards / brackets?

[5urg3]

The above photo should explain the issue…wondering if this was done deliberately by HP or if there are in fact multiple low profile bracket standards?  Anyone know? 

The website for the Z2 Mini G9 actually says “standard low profile graphics” too which is a blatant lie.  These are proprietary PCIe bracket sizes and retention mechanisms.  Standard low profile brackets don’t fit!

 

[5urg3]

 Also it’s not just the bottom tab but the top retention tab as well

 

[5urg3]

I’ve confirmed with HP support — this Z2 Mini G9 uses a proprietary PCIe bracket system that HP created specifically for this computer so they could sell gfx cards at a markup, lmao

I really hope other people don’t make the same mistake and buy this piece of **bleep** 

I can zip tie in a network card and just run it without a bracket but this is absolutely fkn ridiculous 

[DGroves]

perhaps you are unaware that the end brackets used in computers do have a published standard

you can review the standards specs which are published on the internet in numerous places

here's one such link

https://www.istarusa.com/documents/faq/faq82.pdf

also i've seen a fair bit of end bracket variances on many cheap lowend pc cards, same for lowend pc cases

however i've never seen this on a major OEM system,  unless the card/case is clearly non standard c, but if they use a standard full/half height card then it is within the tolerances of the published specs

can you post the document or web link that states the video card used in this system is using a standard low profile design?

it may be that hp states that any customer add in card excluding the hp supplied video card  is a standard low profile 

however looking at the system case and your photos it is obvious that this is a non standard pc case and the card photos do appear to show a non standard end bracket, the question i have is about the card dimensions, is it a std low profile card with only the end bracket different ?

[5urg3]

https://www.hp.com/us-en/workstations/z2-mini.html

"Now with standard low-profile graphics design, render and simulate seamlessly with up to NVIDIA RTX A2000 graphics with PCIe Gen4 high speed bandwidth.2"

The cards (all of them that HP sells and officially supports for this computer) are standard low profile cards, and the slot is a standard low profile slot too -- but with HP's customized brackets.  

So they took an open standard (low profile PCI express) and then customized it with their own bracketing format that doesn't allow standard low profile bracketed cards to work.

I have in my possession right now a non OEM Nvidia t400 with the regular low profile bracket -- nothing is different about the card EXCEPT for the bracket!  If you remove the bracket, the card fits in the slot and runs just as the OEM card, it performs exactly the same!  This goes for ANY low profile PCIe cards.  I've got my Intel X520-DA2 in there right now, without a bracket, retained with a damned zip tie.

To be perfectly clear -- HP literally designed a customized bracketing system so they could sell PCIe cards at a markup, lock out non OEM cards, and then lied about it.  

You have to dig into the "quick specs" PDF to find out the truth:

https://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/getpdf.aspx/c08109685.pdf

"The HP Mini discrete graphics cards come with custom rear connector bulkhead. (see system board section for more details)" 

(by the way, what in the world is a "bulkhead" lol -- ofc the term they mean here is "bracket" not "bulkhead")

"In the PCIe Gen4 (x16 mechanical/x8 electrical) slot, it intent to supported HP certified dGFX card."

Seems like no one stateside actually reviewed this either before they published it...HP, if you're reading this and you want someone to edit this to more accurately reflect the English language, send me a DM!

I am thinking about complaining to the PCI-SIG since they are using the PCI Express term and logo, however I suspect that they will tell me there's nothing they can do, because the *slot* is standardized, it's just the bracket that's proprietary -- sigh...

So -- what can be done about this?  I am working with a few people to 3d model HP's customized brackets.  Once we have that done, we will put the models online for free under GPL or similar license, and people can just 3d print their own brackets.  There are already several very common low profile PCIe bracket models online for popular cards, it should not be that difficult to modify them to be compatible once we have the this bracket format documented and modeled.

I've also asked HP support to send me a CAD model of their brackets, but I haven't heard back yet.  I suspect they are going to tell me to go pound salt, but it's at least worth a try.

 

[DGroves]

in this case after reading the links you provided i have to fully agree that hp's wording of "takes standard low profile cards" is poorly written as you are correct in your observation that the end bracket is a modified version of a standard low profile bracket while the card itself is a standard low profile card

I also fully agree that a end user based on HP's wording of the system has every right to expect any low profile card that does not exceed thickness/length restrictions imposed by the case dimensions should pe plug and play

however the bracket changes while not major will prevent any std low profile card from being inserted.

however i also note that simple hand tools can modify the STD bracket to the HP bracket dimensions' if you are reasonable handy with a screwdriver, snips and a file or just a dremel based on your posted pictures

[5urg3]

Unfortunately dremmeling doesn’t work.  Tried it.  The bottom tab is so much longer on a standard LP bracket that if you snip it off so that the card actually sits in the slot properly and is fully inserted, there’s nothing left as far as a retention mechanism on the bottom at.
And on the top, it’s the same…

There is really no way to modify the top of a standard bracket to make it work.  If you again simply snip off the top standard bracket retention mechanism, again there is nothing to actually retain the card on the top either.

Once we have it 3D modeled the nuances of this will be made much clearer.  Admittedly it’s hard to describe and it’s also hard to photograph since it’s such a specific and nuanced change.  I’ll try to remember to post back once completed.