Z620 2x CPU and heatsinks upgrade

[RentedDreams]

Hi all,

I just purchased a Z620 workstation that has 2 x E5-2630 @ 2.30GHz and 64GB RAM. I have the rev 1 motherboard, so I am limited to version 1 CPUs but I would like to upgrade to something with 8 cores and supports faster memory.

I was looking at either a pair of E5-2670 or E5-2680 processors. I'm not a gammer. I write large scale database applicatons with web based front ends for cancer research. Lots of digitized MRI scans, X-rays, etc. Any recommendations on which processor would be more suitable or is there something else I should look at?

I was worried if the upgred CPUs will cause increased heat and searched this forum for possible solutions. I read Scott's (SDH) post about using the Z640's mainboard extra large heatsink #749554-001 and thought it was the answer. Then someone with a Z640 wanted to upgrade to 2 processors and asked the forum why the new one would not fit. I read SDH's answer to the OP and what heatsink he needed to use, but am now unsure what heatsink I should use in my dual Z620 ?

Will the upgraded processors (E5-2670 or E-2680) generate enough heat to merit an increased cooling capacity or can my original E5-2630 heatsinks/fans cope? If it is best to increase cooling, what would be your recommendations?

Any and all information will be greatly appreciated.

Ron

[BambiBoomZ · Accepted solution]

Rented Dreams,

Processor Choice:  First, the story of z620_1:

HP z620_1 (Original) Xeon E5-1620 (4-core @ 3.6 /3.8GHz) / 8GB (1X 8GB DDR3-1333) / AMD Firepro V5900 (2GB) / Seagate Barracuda 750GB + Samsung 500GB + WD 500GB
[ Passmark System Rating= 2408 / CPU= 8361 / 2D= 846 / 3D = 1613 / Mem =1584 / Disk = 574 ] 7.13.16

And about two months later:

HP z620_1 (2012)(Rev 5) 2X Xeon E5-2690 (8-core @ 2.9 /3.8GHz) / 64GB (4X 8GB +4X 8GB DDR3-1600) / Quadro K2200 (4GB) / Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB / 800W > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > HP 2711x (1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark System Rating= 5675 / CPU= 22625 / 2D= 815 / 3D = 3580 / Mem = 2522 / Disk = 12640 ] 9.25.16 Single Thread Mark = 1903

The higher single-thread performance of the E5-2690 is recommended.  The average Passmark single thread scores:

E5-2670 =  1468

E5-2680 =  1562

E5-2690 =  1675

Processor Coolers:  As far as I'm aware, because of the space restrictions in the z620 when the second CPU riser is installed, plus the unusual offset and 45 deg angle of the riser fan/heatsink cooler, the riser z620 fan /heatsink does not have an alternate z620 version. 

Ideally, our forum friend SDH will comment specifically to this situation, as his office has a number of zX20 and zX40 systems used for medical imaging and has substituted zx40 fan/heatsinks into zX20 systems.

From images, it appears that  may be possible to use the larger z640 for the motherboard CPU,  requiring removing the z620 shroud, but as the original post mentioned, there may well be a clearance problem and will only work in a single processor system. The configuration of the z620 when using dual processors is very space limited.  The current z620 in this office is using a z420 AIO liquid cooler- not terribly larger than the stock fan/heatsink, but a second CPU riser can not be added- it's not even close:

Images of dual-CPU z640s show that there is no shroud on the motherboard CPU, while the riser shroud  appears the same as a z620. As the z620 and z640 riser shrouds appear to have the same form and size, and according to the rules of production economy, the z640 riser fan may work.  Probably though the z640 CPU fan /heatsink is unusable in a dual CPU configuration. 

However, HP WSs are well -engineered and highly tested for endurance and reliability so the stock z620 fans or a z620 CPU and z640 riser combination should be sufficient. Monitor the system and if the temperatures are consistently above about 65C set the fan curve in BIOS up a notch- well, an asterisk or two (Advanced > Thermal). It will make a bit more noise. 

RAM: For best performance, a symmetrical number of identical HP-labelled RAM modules  is recommended; perhaps the subject system is already 4X 8GB + 4X 8GB, DDR3-1600 ECC Registered modules.

GPU: Also,  at least a 4GB Quadro is suggested- the K2200 and K4200 are quite good, the 5GB Quadro P2000 or the successor P2200 ; = worth considering for future transfer to the next system. Some earlier Kepler Quadros have  2D performance as good as later higher level and later versions that shifted emphasis to 3D performance.

HP z420_1 (2013) (Rev 3) > Xeon E5-1620 four core @ 3.6 /3.8GHz > 24GB (4X 8GB + 4X 2GB) DDR3 ECC 1600 RAM > Quadro K2200 (4GB) > Intel 730 (480GB) + WD Black 1TB > M-Audio 192 soundcard Linksys WMP600N WiFi
[Passmark system rating = 4403 / CPU = 9280 / 2D= 797 / 3D= 3481/ Mem= 2559 / Disk= 4498

HP z420_2 (2015) (Rev 3) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 (6-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz) / 32GB DDR3 -1866 ECC RAM / Quadro K4200 (4GB) / Samsung SM951 M.2 256GB AHCI + Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) + Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card + Logitech z2300 2.1 speakers > 600W PSU> > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit >> 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)
[ Passmark Rating = 5581 > CPU= 14226 / 2D= 838 / 3D= 5077 / Mem= 2777 / Disk= 11559] [6.12.16] Single-Thread Mark = 2098 [3.24.17]

HP z420_2 (2015) (Rev 5) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 (6-core @ 4.2GHz) / 32GB DDR3 -1866 ECC RAM / Quadro P2000 (5GB) / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI + Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) + Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> Creative SB X-Fi Titanium + Logitech z2300 2.1 speakers > 600W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)
[ Passmark Rating = 5920 > CPU= 15129 / 2D= 855 / 3D= 8945 / Mem= 2906 / Disk= 8576] [6.12.16] Single-Thread Mark = 2322 [4.20.17]

HP z620_2 (2017) (R9) > Xeon E5-1650 v2 (6C@ 4.4GHz) / z420 Liquid Cooling / 64GB (HP/Samsung 8X 8GB DDR3-1866 ECC registered) /GTX 1070 Ti 8GB / Samsung SM951 M.2 512GB AHCI + Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 500GB + HP/HGST Enterprise 6TB / Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 sound interface + 2X Mackie MR824 / 825W PSU / Windows 7 Prof.’l 64-bit (HP OEM) > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)
[ Passmark Rating = 6148 / CPU rating = 15952 / 2D = 787 / 3D= 13077 / Mem = 3045 / Disk = 15506 / Single Thread Mark = 2425 [5.20.21]

HP z420_3: (2015) (R12) Xeon E5-1650 v2 (6C@ 4.3GHz) / z420 Liquid cooling / 64GB (HP/Samsung 8X 8GB DDR3-1866 ECC registered) / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB/ Samsung SM951 M.2 256GB AHCI + Samsung 860 EVO 500GB + HGST 7K6000 4TB / ASUS Essence STX + Logitech z2300 2.1 / 600W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (HP OEM ) > Samsung 40" 4K
[Passmark System Rating: = 5947 / CPU = 15268 / 2D = 773 / 3D = 11025 / Mem = 2931 Disk = 15530 /Single Thread Mark = 2383 [5.3.21]

Notice that the 2D performance of the K2200 is very similar to the years later P2000 , but that has quite a bit higher 3D performance and the GTX 1070 Ti 8GB and GTX 1060 6GB have lower 2D scores than the P2000 also with much higher 3D marks.

BambiBoomZ

[SDH]

EDIT:  The extra large Z440 heatsink/fan is way too big to ever use in a dual-CPU build of a Z620 or Z640... the riser takes up too much space.  HP never made a memory cooling saddle for the Z640.  They did for the Z440 (748799-001) but that won't fit in the Z640 or Z620, or Z420.  The extra large Z440 heatsink/fan fits fine under that Z440 memory cooling saddle in the Z440 builds.

Yes, you are correct that the extra large heatsink/fan from some single-processor Z640 builds and many Z440 builds will fit only in a single processor-Z640 and Z620 (and all Z440 and Z420 builds).  In the Z620 its dual fan HP active memory cooling solution, a saddle-like device, can fit perfectly over that larger heatsink/fan device so I now use that combination in all of our single-processor Z620 builds.  The part numbers to look up in eBay for these parts are 749554-001 (the double surface area extra large heatsink/fan usually used in a Z440), and 644316-001 (the active memory cooling saddle that cools each bank of Z620 memory with its own two fans).

Neither of these items will fit in a dual-processor Z620 or Z640 build... the  second processor add-on riser takes up too much room.  You can go look up all the parts for the Z620 riser on eBay.  Make a list... there are multiple part numbers for that and hopefully you received the whole unit with your Z620 purchase. 

A few of the parts from a Z640 riser should fit in the Z620 riser... one in particular would be the 45 degree rotated processor heatsink/fan made for the Z640 that has 4 instead of 3 heat tubes.... two part numbers for the same device:  749597-001 and 782505-001. 

.  I have not tried that experiment.

There also is the offset-heatsink/fan for the CPU that is designed to work on the Z640's mainboard with the riser in place (or not).  As shown below it's heatsink is offset in a straight line away from the socket instead of rotated by 45 degrees.  That also has four heat tubes instead of the three you see in the equivalent for the Z620.  Same idea.... these 4 heat tube ones should all be interchangeable but I have not done that second experiment either.  Find those on eBay under 749596-001.  With those they use the 6-hole fan plug.... just use pins 1-5 for your Z620 CPU fan header and hang #6 out in space.  The riser one just uses a 4-pin fan plug as does the original for the Z620.

You'd also want to make sure you have the HP front cooling fan kit included.  This all is if you want maximal cooling.

.

Our friend Bambi can help with the best v1 processors for your Z620 v1.

[RentedDreams]

BambiBoomZ and SDH, thanks for taking the time to reply and provide indepth possible solutions to my queries.

The workstation came fully intack and has all of the original factory inner panels, and fans. There is a fan in the front. It has a AMD FirePro V7900 GPU, which should be more than adequate for my needs, though I do like being able to run three monitors. Really great to put the web site on one, the database on another and my code in the 3rd.

I didn't consider the E5-2690 are a possible upgrade, mainly because I have an IT friend who will sell me a pair of 2670s or 2680s for $25 and I can't find 2690s for less than $300. But looking at the numbers, it is a big step up in performance.

The 64GB of RAM consists of 4 x 8GB on each process which according to the HP Z620 Memory Configurations and Optimization guide is one of the best configurations for this amount of RAM. However, it is the slower 1333MHz DIMMs. After the CPU upgrade, I'll start saving up to switch over the 1600MHz DIMMs.

I downloaded HP Power Assistant and HP Support Assistant and will use them to keep a close eye on the temperatures. So, I guess, I'll reuse my original heatsinks for now and maybe try and find a pair from a Z640 and see how they fit. If they do, I'll take a few pictures and let you know.

Thanks for all of the help and ideas. Wish I could split the "Accept As Solution" to give equal credit, since you both provided such good answers.

[BambiBoomZ]

RentedDreams,

You're very welcome.  These systems, history, and nearly infinite upgrade paths do require  all manner of arcane knowledge.  I'm a sort of continual upgrader, and the only experiment I've done was to try a z420 liquid cooler in a z620, whereas SDH has extensive tries with alternate cooling in what seems numerous zX20 and zX40 systems.

By the way, on eBahhh US, there is (6.30.21) a seller -with whom I've never dealt, but has 99.8% positive feedback with "more than 10" E5-2690's Buy it now $40 each, PCServer and Parts with whom I have dealt, has a pile of those at $50, plus there a re number of singles at under $50. I hope that is not a violation of forum policy to mention.

Let us know what happens.

BambiBoomZ

[RentedDreams]

Bambi, thanks for the heads up on the 2690 CPUs. I bought a pair for $66  🙂

Now I've thoug about upgrading the 133MHz RAM, but 64GB  EEC is looking really expensive. Considering I'm just dealing with very large graphic data and not doing videos and gaming, do you think I would see that much improvement by moving to PC-12800E RAM? 

[SDH]

Here are the memory speeds those v1 processors can function at, from Intel the Ark site:

Memory Types    DDR3 800/1066/1333/1600

Note that the memory controller will drop a faster proper type of memory down the the 1600 speed.  A slower single stick will slow all the others down to match.  We bought a bunch of 8GB Samsung identical retired server memory that was 1866 rated, ECC, buffered, at about $11.00 USD/stick and all sticks worked fine.  These even worked fine in a few Z600 v2 workstations... I was surprised at that.  Bambi helped get me going with that memory breakthrough and I can help you too.  A nice feature is that the same memory would be ready for you getting a version 2 ZX20 if that happens later. 

I agree with him that HP ones are preferred but mine ended up all being the same but from HP/Lenovo/IBM etc retired servers and all worked equally well.

[RentedDreams]

SDH, I'm a go on the memory upgrade. I thought that the 64GB would be more than adequate for my needs, but if I'm replacing it with the faster 1600 then for that price it would be false economy to stop at 64. What do I need to do?

I'm preparing to install the upgraded E5-2690 CPUs and wondered if I need to do anything else first. Do I need to upgrade the BIOS or any firmware? 

Current ME firmware version is 8.1.52.1496 BIOS is J61 v03.69.

thanks again for all of the support.

[SDH]

We might be misunderstanding each other.  My approach was via buying 8GB sticks, and you have 8 sockets on your main motherboard and 4 more sockets on the riser.  That would net you 12 x 8 = 96GB.  If you already have 64GB I'd check their speed and maybe just add 4 more identical ones to that set of 8.

Edit:  3.96 is the latest BIOS... same is used for a v1 and v2 motherboard.  Newer BIOS can allow processors that were previously not certified by HP to thereafter work with the workstation.  Z420 and Z620 BIOS is identical.

Hopefully you've upgraded processors in these before..... be very careful to not drop the processor into the socket and to put the new one in exactly as the original was.  I like the Noctua NT-H1 type of thermal paste.  I apply it as I have posted in here outside of the socket, to a thickness that you barely cannot see through.  Fancy tiny pea size total in the center and then with latex glove using one finger tip circle it around from center to periphery.  There is a cut off corner on the processor's PCB.... that goes in as the original came out.    I clean old paste off with multiple sequential DNA paper towels..... and always protect the bottom by setting the processor top up on folded paper towels.  Don't break off a resistor on the bottom by not doing that... have good padding.

[BambiBoomZ]

RentedDreams,

Well done on the pair of Xeon E5-2690's for $66- an excellent value: that pair would have cost more than $4,100 new:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/64596/intel-xeon-processor-e5-2690-20m-cache-2-...

It's not uncommon in workstations with large compiling projects to use 128GB or higher RAM capacities.  For a z620 first series, 128GB means 4X 16GB (M/B) + 4X 16GB (riser) of PC3-12800R or in other terminology: 8X 16GB DDR3-1600 ECC Registered.  Potential acquisition might resemble this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334054766299?epid=0&hash=item4dc73736db:g:ObgAAOSwpHZg15N4

Which is Hynix memory having the HP part number label.  As SDH mentions, a number of WS brands will often work, but using HP-labelled means that specific memory was tested by HP, although this was probably for some Proliant server variant.

When installing , check the user manual for the correct slot placement on the main motherboard.

Of course, sale of the original memory will help offset the cost. 

The latest BIOS is 3.96 not 3.69- check in the HP support section for the latest updates to: BIOS  chipset, USB RST and etc. firmware and drivers.  Updating the GPU driver is an important one as well. See this very useful page:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/hp-z620-workstation/5225037

When you have everything going, let us know the results.  Again, the Passmark Performance Test 9 is recommended.  PT10 seems to give skewed results on older systems.  Testing after each change reveals weak components and progress or performance reduction. This is the saga of HP z620_1 and it's both useful and satisfying to chart the improvements:

HP z620_1: Purchased 7.7.16

HP z620_1 (Original) Xeon E5-1620 (4-core @ 3.6 /3.8GHz) / 8GB (1X 8GB DDR3-1333) / AMD Firepro V5900 (2GB) / Seagate Barracuda 750GB + Samsung 500GB + WD 500GB
[ Passmark System Rating= 2408 / CPU= 8361 / 2D= 846 / 3D = 1613 / Mem =1584 / Disk = 574 ] 7.13.16

HP z620_1 (Rev 1) Xeon E5-2690 (8-core @ 2.9 /3.8GHz) / 40GB (4X 8GB +4X 2GB DDR3-1600) / AMD Firepro V5900 (2GB) / Seagate Barracuda 750GB + Samsung 500Gb + WD 500GB / 800W > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit >
[ Passmark System Rating= 2304 / CPU= 14532 / 2D= 723 / 3D = 1665/ Mem =2709 / Disk = 538 ] 7.20.16

HP z620_1 (Rev 2) 2X Xeon E5-2690 (8-core @ 2.9 /3.8GHz) / 40GB (4X 8GB +4X 2GB DDR3-1600) / Quadro K2200 (4GB) / Seagate Barracuda 750GB + Samsung 500GB + WD 500GB / 800W > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit >
[ Passmark System Rating= 2468 / CPU= 20083 / 2D= 731 / 3D = 3535/ Mem =2278 / Disk = 541 ] 8.1.16

_BIOS. v. 3.90 : [ Passmark System Rating= 2589 / CPU= 19708 / 2D= 723 / 3D = 3607 / Mem =2406 / Disk = 587 ] 8.2.16

HP z620_1 (Rev 3) 2X Xeon E5-2690 (8-core @ 2.9 /3.8GHz) / 40GB (4X 8GB +4X 2GB DDR3-1600) / Quadro K2200 (4GB) / HP Z Turbo Drive 256GB AHCI + Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB / 800W > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > HP 2711x (1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark System Rating= 5322 / CPU= 19675 / 2D= 767 / 3D = 3544/ Mem =2337 / Disk = 12951 ] 8.15.16

HP z620_1 (2012) (Rev 4) 2X Xeon E5-2690 (8-core @ 2.9 / 3.8GHz) / 64GB DDR3-1600 ECC reg) / Quadro K2200 (4GB) + Tesla M2090 (6GB) / HP Z Turbo Drive (256GB) + Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Constellation ES.3 (1TB) / Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium PCIe sound card + Logitech z313 2.1 speakers / 800W / Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > > HP 2711x (27" 1980 X 1080)

Passmark System Rating= 5675 / CPU= 22625 / 2D= 815 / 3D = 3580 / Mem = 2522 / Disk = 12640 ] 9.25.16 Single Thread Mark = 1903

BambiBoomZ