KVR800D2N6/G dc5800

[Pochonglos]

Hi again!

Lots of good news and not so good.

The system is up and runing with the 8GB and the Q6700. Impresive!  Quicker startups, no lagging between app changes, tons of tabs on the browser, you get the picture. I can't believe this 8 year old computer still has this level of performance. Ver happy!

The bad news is I put the machine into the hands of a tech who didn't know what he was doing. He placed the heatsink in the wrong direction causing over 80ºC temps on first run. He told me this was normal. Skeptical as I am, I further investigated and of course this is not normal. After informing, he told me to turn it. What's th point of paying the guy for installation if I'm going to fix it myself is beyond me! Anyway, once I took it a part to install it correctly I discover thermal paste hasn't been applied properly. Regardless, I go ahead and, one of the heatsink's screws forces the nut on the motherboard rendering it usless. Fortunately the screw is tightened enough to keep the sink in place. The other screws are fine. Of course, if I need to open it up again, it will be near to impossible. That screw just turns endlesly but doesn't move up.

Some lousy techs out there!

So, I powered up hoping that with the screw problem and the paste problem I would still have a stable system. Turns out I do. Using RealTemp and adjusting TjMax to 90 (as specified by Intel) I hit 71ºC running Prime95 on one of the cores. The others stay below 70ºC. In theory, this machine has a Tcase of aprox. 62ºC so I should be safe if we consider a thermal difference of maybe 10ºC to IHS. Some sources say this difference is only 5ºC in which case my cores might be overheating slightly, escpecially that one core. This is probably due to the paste issue. 

However, as stated the system seems stable and I'll never be pushing it to those limits in any case. I've been mointoring my temps with normal use and my distance to throttle is more than enough thank God.

Ok, that over, I have another problem I'd like to consult.

The same idiot tech installed a GPU which I asked for his opinion on. He put in a GeForce 7500 Le. I later find out that this card does not outperform the chipset's GPU. Fortunately, I'm getting my money back on the card. I've decide to do that upgrade on my own.  I believe you've commented on this in the past on other threads.

I'd like to install a GPU of the types of GT 610 2GB or maybe an HD 64450. The issue is they are both HDMI and this seems to disconnect the onboard audio system. Apparently this needs to be corrected through the BIOS. As you've acknowledged on other threads thanks to another user, this is not possible on my DC5800. At least not with my current BOS which is v. 1.04. I've tried finding BIOS updates on HP's driver pages and lo and behold they have dissapeared. Only the utilities are left.

Even if I could find the BIOS update, would it correct the problem?

Where could I find it if this is the case?

If not, what GPU would suit my needs and would really improve the onboard specs at a decent budget? I'd be going second hand. Please take power supply issues into account. There's lot's out there on forums about the 240w power supply in th SFF with 300W GPUs but nobody seems to agree if it's adeqaute to install them on this model even if they are low profile. The supported cards on HP docs are very outdated and it's dificult to go by their specs.

One last thing, AHCI also seems to be an issue on this model. The motherboard is compliant but users who have installed an SDD drive report not being able to chage BIOS setings to get max performance. Any news on this? I'd like to know in case I choose to go down this road and upgrade the drive. Mine only has 80GB and this could be one of my choices.

Sorry for the long rant but I did my homework before reporting so I thought it would be useful to pool it all in. Oh! And the fact that I've got all excited about the upgrading seeing how well the PC was performing. My only fear is that due to age the power supply, fans or motherboard might go ruining my investment. 

Any news on when these things break? If I'm near to these dates I would hold back on GPU and drive upgrade. If not, I would go for it seeing as I could get another 3/4 years of good performance from the machine.

Again, sorry for the bother and your help is hugely appreciated.

Cheers!

[Paul_Tikkanen]

Thanks for the update.

You know the old saying...if you want something done right, do it yourself.

You could have done a better job installing that processor.  Let's put it this way...you could have done no worse!

That is a real shame.

Yeah, the GT 610 would work fine, or the Radeon HD 6450.  Neither card draws more than 30W at maximum.

Now you do realize that until you install the graphics card with HDMI out, there is no onboard audio setting, correct?

If you are looking for it without a graphics card installed with HDMI out, you won't find one, because it does not exist.

It will show up in the Advanced tab, Device Options menu after the card with HDMI is installed.  Then you can enable the onboard audio.  This is true regardless of BIOS version.

I still don't understand why there is no AHCI setting in the dc5800/7800 PCs, but you are either stuck with IDE or RAID mode.  RAID is the better setting to have it on so the mechanical hard drive can take advantage of native command queuing.

There is another very peculiar issue with non-HP SATA III drives and the controllers on the dc5800/dc7800.  I don't know if it affects every model, but it sure did on my dc7800.

This is exactly what happened to me when I installed a Western Digital 1 TB SATA III hard drive in my dc7800.

http://h20566.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?sp4ts.oid=3718645&calledBy=&ac.admitted=1379354458...

Even though our models are not listed, mine did the first one.  Of course I thought the drive was defective and sent it back for a replacement which did the same thing.  Then I found the above paper.

So...since most SSD's are SATA III nowadays, you  could definitely run into a problem if you install one in your PC (unless you can find a SATA II one still around).

But as far as enabling AHCI mode?  Not going to happen.  The other bad thing is that there will be no TRIM support for the SSD in RAID mode with that chipset.

Starting with the Intel series 7 chipsets, full support for SSD's is provided in RAID mode as long as the latest Intel RST driver is installed.  That does not help either of us with our PC's but it is information I feel you should be aware of.

Hope this helps, and enjoy your revitalized (albeit wounded) PC.

[Pochonglos]

Hi again Paul,

And again, many thanks for your contributions, they are very valuable and I'm learning loads.

Ok, step by step so I can clear my confusion. From what you write I understand that the BIOS will offer the menu option as soon as I put in a GPU w/HDMI, correct?

If so, then some history on the threads is either outdate or needs updating. Please allow me to offer the examples. Please don't think I'm being over-skeptical or fussy, it's just I don't want to Ebay a secon hand card and find myself cornered.

So, a bit of history.

This guy from 2010 posts more or less the same isue as I do just that he's actually encountered that the BIOS does not offer options. I beleive it's you 😉 who actually accept that as a model problem.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop-PC-Sound-and-Audio-Reply-Only/New-graphics-card-diasbled-onboar...

This would be the opposite of what you say in your last post to me. However, in 2013 the same thing happens.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop-Audio-Video-Monitors/Best-graphic-card-for-DC5800-microtower-us...

Same GPU issue and I think it's you again who offers the same advice you're offering me which is counter to the 2010 incident. And! this time the issue seems to be solved.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop-Audio-Video-Monitors/Best-graphic-card-for-DC5800-microtower-us...

I'm assuming in that time period something was solved. How could it be without a BIOS upgrade? Am I missing something? It doesn't seem to make sense that it was impossible in 2010 but not so 3 years later.

So, if you do remember if there was a change, I'd need to know as, as I told you, I'm on an old BIOS version without HP offering updates. 

I hope my wires aren't crossed on this one.

Re AHCI, was dreading that. I'll save myself the hassle. Doesn't make much sense to me. Why on earth put together an AHCI system and disable it? Others seem to believe there's dodgy business going on.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop-Operating-Systems-Software-Recovery/AHCI-setting-at-dc5800-bios...

I'm not that far fetched but curious to know why HP would be willing to do something so counter-intuitive.

Any news on the BIOS update would be appreciated.

Cheers again mate!

[Paul_Tikkanen]

Hi:

On the first link I posted almost 5 years ago, I did not own a dc7800 at that time.  I could only speculate what needed to be done (or I would have told the guy at the time that no onboard audio setting would be there until the card was installed).

I have first hand on my dc7800, experienced the onboard audio going out after I installed a video card with HDMI out, so I can assure you that there will be an onboard audio setting appear after you install the card.

The onboard audio setting was not there in my PC either without the HDMI video card being present.

It was not HP, that caused this travesty, I'm afraid.  I don't know of any PC's with the Intel series 3 chipsets that had an AHCI drive controller setting.  Only IDE and RAID.

I once had a Dell 530s with the intel series 3 chipset, and that BIOS also only had the IDE and RAID setting.

On that PC, there was an obnoxious line that always appeared during boot in RAID mode "No AHCI BIOS present."

It hung there for a second or so, just to piss you off before the PC continued to boot.

The only way I could make that message line go away was if I set the drive controller to IDE.

At least we don't have that message to contend with on our dc's.

Now, if you want to update the BIOS in your PC for kicks, then by all means go ahead.  But doing so will not make a hill of beans difference as to the status of how the onboard audio setting works.  Again if you update the BIOS, use the DOS based flash method.

My dc7800 is at the highest (latest) BIOS revision, and in the few times I have had to reset the CMOS, my onboard audio still goes out until I go back in and enable the onboard audio setting.  That will never happen automatically because the BIOS is too old.

[Pochonglos]

Thank again.

No for kicks, I won't be messing around. Not my attitude to computing. 😉 If it works, fine!

Well, ACHI issue solved. If I need the space I'll add a disk. Personally I prefer to keep main disk slim and in good working order and I Dropobox my  current working stuff on an external. On the same drive I keep my archived material which in turn is regularly backed up on my Netbook. It's easy, quick and convenient. It's a work flow that suits me well. I honestly don't know what folks do with TB drives and then have 16GB on their phone or tablet. I have 16 GB in Dropbox which matches all my device storage needs and keeps me updated wherever I am, whenever and most importantly on any of my devices.

Well, my two cents on work flows.

Btw, you mentioned nothing on HP durability. How much can I expect from the dc5800? Is it woth the GPU upgrade? OR will the onboard get me by? Solid Skype and Hanout usage is a must. If it is, is the GT610 a good option or can you offe alternatives. I can bag this card for 35 Euros on Ebay. Currency exchange rates not considered, we'd be talking 40$.

Real pleasure sharing opinions. 

[Paul_Tikkanen]

Anytime.

If you add the video card, it will free up some system memory (384 MB, I believe is used in your PC for the Intel graphics).

Not to mention slightly to moderately better graphics performance.

With normal use, you can expect the dc5800 to give you years of service.

My dc7800 was a used in a corporate environment and sold to a recycler who then sold it on eBay, where I purchased it from.

It was made in Nov 2008, and is still going strong after all these years.  Never had one lick of trouble with it.

I take it outside and clean the chassis, fans, etc., of dust twice a year.

I guess if folks have a lot of pictures, they need a large hard drive for the storage.

If you don't have a lot of files or store them either in the cloud or on a portable hard drive, I think a 250 GB HDD is more than enough space for everyday use.

[Pochonglos]

Ok then, this is almost wrapped up.

I think I'll make the move on the GPU then. The only last consideration is whether you think my choice of card for the price makes sense or not and if not other suggestions.

Cheers!

[Paul_Tikkanen]

I think the GT610 is an excellent choice or the AMD Radeon HD 6450.

In the small form factor PC you may want to opt for a video card that has a fan to dissipate the heat.

I like the cards with fanless heatsinks because they are silent.

But the dc7800 I have is a convertible mini tower and that has plenty of air space plus a case fan to dissipate the heat, so I always go for a fanless card in the tower size PC's.

Whatever you do, make sure the card you get comes with the low profile mounting brackets.

Many brands offer the low profile video card, but it only comes with the mounting bracket that works in a PC like mine.

[Pochonglos]

Hi Paul,

Just thought that I'd reopen this thread and let you know the DC 5800 is still working like a charm. The very odd failed boot up - God knows why -, and that's about it. I was actually thinking of buying an all-in-one for for my day-to-days and leave the HP as a dedicated DAW machine. But I actually have to go into mid range budgets to match the specs I have at the moment. 

The Q6700, which is quad, still outperforms many i3s and in some instances, i5s. This is sick coming from a 10 year od machine.

Anyway, I've been jiggling around some display upgrades. Actually posted a query re monitors elsewhere - no answers yet-.

But, I have a 17 inch LCD gathering dust which I could add two my two current monitors. Thing is the onboard won't work with the added Radeon HD 6450. A guys, Steve, posted he found a workaround this on an 8000 elite by using a card in a PCIE x1 slot. However, no guarantess this will work on the DC 5800. 

How on earth do I setup 3 monitors on this desktop? Most cards, even if they do have three outputs only operate two. Add to that that my monitors are D-Sub. Looking for a quick fix without breaking the bank or blowing things out of proportion. In same case in might just be bettter to get a 27 inch QHD for real estate. 

Well, there it is, hoping there's a solution out there.

Anybody?

Cheers.

[Paul_Tikkanen]

Hi:

Glad you are still getting some good use out of your dc5800.

I am still using a dc7800 with W10, and it works just fine too.  It has the E8300.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't have any idea how you can hook up 3 monitors.

I have one 22" one on my rig.  That's good enough for me.