Z8-g5 incompatible with PCIe eSATA cards

[wmc]

On a brand new Z8-G5 with fresh HP OEM Windows 11 installation, no PCIe eSATA/SATA contoller cards seem to be "allowed".  I've tried multiple slots, multiple cards, enabled "PCIe Reset", turned of secure start, NUMA, updated one card's firmware, used the latest "Win 10 / Win 11 driver" from Asmedia (who it seems is the only maker of SATA controller chips used by various card manufacturers).  The cards themselves when installed and using the Microsoft generic driver show up as "operating properly" in Device Manager->IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers->Standard SATA AHCI Controller.  If I install the Asmedia drivers (supposedly ony necessary for port multiplying), the cards instead show up in Device Manager-> Storage controllers-> Asmedia 106x SATA Controller regardless of card manufacturer.  However, with either driver set-up once a live device is connected (in my case an OWC Mercury Rack Pro hardware RAID5 device) the system will fail to cold boot or it already booted into Windows 11 at the point I power-up the external eSATA device, the system will hard fail.

In one slot (PCIe slot 3) the card will cause a cold boot operation to hang on the HP/Wolf logo screen, and if the system is running when the eSATA device is powered-up, the system will crash to a black screen.  Then in either case, every fan in the case begins to slowly spin up to max RPM.  Recovery requires forced Z8 power-off and disconnection of the eSATA device.

In another slot (PCIe slot 6) both situations go to BSOD "MACHINE_CHECK_EXCEPTION" instead of black or HP logo screens before the fans begin to speed up.  None of the failures leave dump files or entries in the event log or BIOS event log, so I have no  other data to offer.

I suspect the issue is HP BIOS but have not found the right combinations of settings to allow the card / RAID5 device to work. NOTE:  PCIe eSATA\SATA card attached to the RAID5 device worked for years on a Z840 with Windows 10 (latest updates) until the day I transitioned them to the Z8-G5 Windows 11 machine.  Since then (01/21) I have had a couple Windows 11 updates, and check of HP support site for drivers and BIOS updates show all up to date.  Note that I have also found that the vast majority of internet posts regarding Asmedia eSATA/SATA controllers not working have been on newer HP hardware and not just the Z workstation varieties, hence my suspicion that it is a bug in HP BIOS.

[NonSequitur777]

@wmc,

Not sure if your post was a question/statement or diatribe.

In any regards, it sounds like a frustrating compatibility issue, likely related to the HP BIOS or system firmware changes in the newer Z8-G5 architecture. Here are a few thoughts and troubleshooting steps that might help:

Possible Causes:

1. BIOS or PCIe Slot Behavior Changes – The Z8-G5 has a different PCIe and BIOS implementation than the Z840, which could introduce incompatibility with legacy Asmedia-based eSATA/SATA controller cards.
2. Asmedia Controller Compatibility with HP Firmware – If Asmedia-based cards work fine in older HP systems but not in newer ones, it's quite possible HP has restricted support for these controllers in BIOS/firmware.
3. Power Management Conflicts – The system crashing when powering up an external RAID device suggests a possible power management or PCIe lane issue.
4. Windows 11 vs. Windows 10 Driver Handling – Windows 11 may handle storage drivers differently, even if the Asmedia drivers installed without error.

 

Troubleshooting Suggestions:

1. Check HP BIOS Settings:

   • Try disabling "VMD Controller" (if enabled).
   • Toggle "Above 4G Decoding" and "Resizable BAR" settings (sometimes impacts PCIe cards).
   • Set PCIe slots to "GEN 3" instead of "Auto" or "GEN 4/5" (older Asmedia chips might not handle PCIe GEN 4/5 properly).
   • Disable "PCIe Power Management" in BIOS.

2. Test Different PCIe Slots:

   • Some workstations have primary PCIe slots optimized for GPUs, which may not handle storage controller cards properly.
   • If the card works better in PCIe slot 6 than slot 3 (even though both fail), it could indicate a resource allocation issue.

3. Try Different Drivers:

   • If Windows 11 detects the card as "Standard SATA AHCI Controller," try keeping it that way instead of using the Asmedia driver.
   • Test older Asmedia drivers from Windows 10 (sometimes newer drivers cause instability).

4. Firmware Updates for Asmedia Cards:

   • Some Asmedia 106x controllers have firmware updates available (not just driver updates). Check if there's a newer firmware for the card.

5. Test a Different PCIe SATA Card (Non-Asmedia):

   • If possible, try a card based on a different chipset (e.g., Marvell, JMicron) to see if the problem persists.

6. Check HP Support Forums / Logs for Similar Issues:

   • If multiple users report this across HP’s newer workstations, it might be a known issue.

7. Consider HP Support:

   • If you’re under warranty, opening a ticket with HP support might help—especially since other HP systems seem affected.

It does seem like an HP BIOS quirk rather than just a Windows 11 issue, given that it hard crashes even before booting. If you want to experiment further, a different PCIe SATA card (not Asmedia-based) might confirm whether the problem is specific to those controllers.

Let me know if you want me to dig deeper into this!

Kind Regards,

NonSequitur777

[wmc]

Rant or diatribe being saved for HP's substitution of a cheaper GFX card for the one I ordered (which installs in one slot, covers another and takes up two PCIe slot covers unlike the one-slot card I ordered) and its refusal to either refund the $201 difference or swap cards, etc.  The original post is an attempt to describe symptoms in detail, failed remedy attempts, and detail failure modes and symptoms in hopes of finding a solution.  (Hours of scouring the internet have only found solutions for the few ASUS/ROG machines with BIOS settings changes not available on HP machines).

The closest to "VMD Controller" I have are the "Intel VROC SATA Controller" Intel VROC sSATA Controller" that are a combination of hardware built into the motherboard (VROC basic features) and a dongle that attaches to a dedicated motherboard connector (VROC Premium feature options like RAID5 and 6 support at extra cost).  Their control (as near as I can figure) applies to devices attached to the internal SATA ports on the motherboard (on which I have an Intel managed 4x SATA HD RAID10, a single HD [used for the "My...." stuff like documents, downloads pictures...] and a Blu-ray reader/writer. NOTE: all these are attached to and managed by the PHC.  The PCIe slots seem to come off and are managed by the CPUs and as such the Intel VROC NVMe RAID setting for all the PCIe slots shows as "Disabled" and is ghosted (i.e. non changeable) in the BIOS pages for each slot except the "Personality Slots" (0 and 1) and the NVMe0 slot where the duo-drive SSD carrier has my 2 TB Samsung EVO 970 M.2 NVMe as the system drive and the 512 GB Samsung MZVL2512HCJQ SSD HP shipped with the system and that had the Windows11 installer on it.  Intel VROC is already disabled on all the slots, so I cannot set it to "RAID" or "AHCI".

Different PCIe slots have the same fail mode EXCEPT before powering on the eSATA device, the Event Viewer log will be completely overrun by warning events ID 17 at about a 30 Hz rate: "Source: Microsoft-Windows-WHEA-Logger.  A corrected hardware error has occurred. Component: PCI Express Root Port.  Error Source: Generic."  And when I track down the "Primary Device Name" from the error message in the registry it points to the slot in which the eSATA controller sits if it is other than Slot 3.  The difference is that slot 3 is the only accessible PCIe Gen3 slot (slot 5 being covered by the oversized cooling unit on the incorrectly shipped GFX card).  PCIe slot 3 defaults to Gen3 speed, but I can go in and change its "PCIe Speed Limit" to from “Auto” to "Gen3". 

Other PCIe slot 3 settings I've not played with (since I am not sure what they do or if they are relevant) are "Option ROM download" (default "Enabled" remains unchanged), "Resizable Bars" (default "Disabled" remains unchanged) and "SMBUS Isolation" (default "Disabled" remains unchanged).  The BIOS section of the Z8-G5 service manual differs considerably from the organization of the BIOS pages/options and also in available options.  So the above have remained unchanged because I haven't found documentation on what they actually do.

Other PCIe settings in "System Options" page of the BIOS are “PCIe ACS” (default “Enabled” unchanged) and “PCIe Training Reset” (default “Disabled” changed to “Enabled” for the last round of testing with no effect), “Multiple PCIe Segments (default “Disabled” unchanged).  From this page I tried setting “Non-Uniform Memory Access (NUMA)” from default “Enabled” to “Disabled” but got a POST stop saying I had an improper DIMM loading configuration (which is not true according to documentation and chart on the inside of the Z8-G5 side panel). There is some indication from various web forums that “Virtualization Technology (VTx)” (default “Enabled” unchanged) and “DMA Protection” (default “Enabled” unchanged) and “Pre-boot DMA Protection” (default “Enabled” unchanged) should all be disabled.  [DMA requires VTx to be on so it is possible just turning it off will disable DMA at the same time.  However, since Win11, from some of the informational entries in Event Viewer, appears to REQUIRE virtualization and DMA protection for Windows Security TPM usage, I am disinclined to change the defaults for fear of creating worse problems.]

The ”Power Management Options” page has one option – “Unique Sleep State Blink Rates”, (default “Disabled” unchanged) which I don’t need.  Other power management options appear in the “Built-In Device Options”.  “Runtime Power Management” (default “Enable” unchanged), “Hardware P-States” (default “Enabled” unchanged) “Energy Performance Bias Control” (default “BIOS controls EPB” unchanged), “S4/S5 Maximum Power Savings” (default “Disable” unchanged), “BIOS Energy/Performance Bias” (default “Balanced Performance” unchanged), “Extended Idle Power States” (default “Enable” unchanged), “PCI Express Power Management” (default “Disabled” unchanged) and SATA Power Management” (default “Enabled” unchanged) remain as they are because the few I understand make sense as-is, and I think the others interface with the Windows 11 power plan settings and need to remain as they are  in order for those plans to work. So as much as the speeding fans tempt me to believe some power management policy has been violated, I can’t see which one makes logical sense to be the one setting change to fix the issue.

Different cards from different manufactures with MS standard drivers or different revs off Asmedia driver combinations make no change in the fail modes or symptoms.  Windows 10 testing is a waste of time because this RADI5 unit and one of the cards had been working for years on Win10 right up until the Z840 was decommissioned to transfer some of its components to the z8-G5 Win11 machine as its replacement.  Besides, I don’t have the spare components or the workspace to reactivate the Z840 as a test bed.  I also spent many hours looking for eSATA cards that use a JMicron or Marvell controllers. As far as I can tell, they don’t exist.  I would have to buy a SATA card that uses one of their chips but I have no way of getting the internal SATA ports outside the box to eSATA without physically altering the case.  (Once I install the audio DSP card I need there is only one available PCI slot cover position left. The eSATA card and exposed eSATA ports have to take up that one slot and its cover space.  I can’t use a back plate with internal SATA to eSATA port cabling to a second PCIe slot cover with a solely internal SATA port controller card.)

I’ve been checking all manner of for a both HP and non-HP for solutions and as mentioned above the only ones that seemed to have worked were for non-HP hardware using BIOS settings that don’t seem to exist on HP systems.  (These settings seem to allow some sort of legacy/UEFI hybrid operation that the Z8-G5 just doesn’t support.)  Only one person lucked out with an Asmedia firmware upgrade which I tried without success.

HP has made it clear that “HP Support” is not an option.  Although the machine is barely 3 weeks old HP will not allow me to register it and since it is not registered I can’t get support.  Supposedly it has to appear in “My Devices” in my account before I can get to any support other than the AIs of the local “HP Support Assistant” or the “Suggested Services & Resources” that appear in my support.hp.com account dashboard page.  But every different avenue to add the machine fails.  If I try to use the SN, it says its not valid (yes I’ve checked it against the case label, the box label the SN reported by “HP Performance Advisor” and the locally installed “HP Support Assistant” which WILL let me ‘add a device’ to “My Devices” list locally.)  If I try “Detect My Device” sometimes it successfully detects the device, says it is added to the list, but it is not.  Other times it will transition to an HTTP 404 “page not found” page, and still other times it attempts to download some “HP applications framework” thingy that posts a failure when executing and can’t operate the machine identification process. But most of the time it tells me the SN is “invalid”.   And naturally, there is no way to get to a natural born human native (or at least fluent) English speaker who can put me in touch with a natural born human who can get my serial number recognized. I mean its even on the packing list from the factory!  NONE of the AI “Chat Assistants” have this issue in their repertoire of choices for fixing and when you do (after many rounds of the robo-receptionist menus) get to a “customer support agent” they don’t understand English well enough to understand the problem, put me on hold for sales who bounces me to tech support where I sit on hold for 2 hours before they just disconnect the call (scenario repeated 3x before I gave up – HP’s intended goal).   And any support.hp.com “Contact Us” leads only to service center locator (which only shows Best Buy stores or business equipment stores that are 100 miles away), download of the “HP Support Assitant” application (I already have it and it doesn’t know eSATA from Shinola) or a trip to the software and drivers page.  There is no email or phone contact for tech support even under warranty.  And since, for security reasons, I can’t/don’t have social media accounts I can’t “visit” them there.  And to top it all off, somehow HP will no longer allow me to access my HP Enterprise account, but are happy  to send emails telling me how wonderful its new interface will serve my needs

OK, this last bit was a bit of a rant, but all true.

But if you see anything in the settings described above that might be the key to a solution, I'd be most appreciative to hear it.

[NonSequitur777]

@wmc,

As you know, we (the Community Experts) are unpaid volunteers assisting HP product users finding solutions to their issues to the best of our abilities.

Sometimes, perhaps like in your case, there may be no happy ending, unfortunately.

All I can tell you is that we are also no strangers trying to climb up the proverbial HP wall with different degrees of success.

Kind Regards,

NonSequitur777