Fall Creators Update 1709 Won't Load

[isitme1]

I've been trying for weeks to update my machine for the Fall Creators 1709 update, but it will not take.  It starts updating to about 44% and then tells me that it "can't configure some updates" or something like that. I've tried many different suggestions with no luck.

I talked to Microsoft, and they tell me becuase its not on the list of HP tested computers  here (https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c05195282) it won't work.  

My questions are:

1. Will HP ever test this so I can get the update?

2. Are there certain hardware or software updates I could make to allow the upload, even if HP doesn't do testing?

[Grzwacz]

Hi

HP is not, and will not be, providing Windows 10 driver support for your PC.

Your HP, Windows 8.1, Support site has no new drivers. So there is nothing available to help you update to Windows 10, version 1709.

Some folks are able to update to version 1709 by running the update with only a keyboard and mouse connected to the PC. One or more hardware drivers (network, chipset, Bluetooth) which work on the current version of Windows 10 is not compatible with version 1709.

You are between a rock and a hard place. It is possible you could put your PC in an unbootable state if the update completed unsuccessfully.

Do you have HP factory recovery media? Do you back up data?

You can try a clean install by downloading the Windows 10 Media Creation Tool here. Follow instructions to create boot media (DVD or USB). I would try a clean installation on a different HDD or SSD. Then you will still have your current OS, intact on the current storage device, for use if the update fails.

Make sure you have backed up data and you can get back to the current OS or the factory OS before you try this. Or you have a recent, working, Windows 10 image backed up on external media and a reliable bootable rescue disc or USB stick.

Tom

[mdklassen]

>  Product Name: Envy Phoenix 800-060

> I've been trying for weeks to update my machine for the Fall Creators 1709 update ...

Your computer:  HP ENVY Phoenix 800-060 Desktop PC Product Specifications  lists:

Product number - H5P88AA
Release date - 31-May-2013

The web-site: https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c05195282#  states:

HP PCs manufactured before August of 2013 might not have a complete set of hardware and/or drivers required to use all of the features in Windows 10.
• HP is not testing or developing Windows 10 drivers for these PC products.
• If you choose to use Windows 10 some features, applications, and connected devices might not work as expected.

Note that the wording is "might not", not "will not".  So, there is some hope.

Given that you're already running some release of Windows 10, there is more hope.

From: HP Products Tested with Windows 10 

 
The information below lists HP products that have been tested with Windows 10 Fall Creators Update (version 1709). Any PC product that is not listed in the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update table was not tested by HP for this update and may not be supported by HP for Windows 10.

Consumer desktop and All-in-One PCs

does list: HP ENVY Phoenix 850-0xx Desktop PC

Your computer: 800-060 is similar to that 850-0xx model, and that's why you have been able to run Windows 10.

The Other Person did recommend what is named a "clean install" -- starting from "scratch", rather than try to "upgrade".  Hint: if you have a spare disk-drive, do that "clean install" onto that disk-drive, instead of your "production" disk-drive.

[isitme1]

Wow  - This is really helpful information!  I've spent so much time on this and am gettin g nowhere. 

I do not have a spare disk drive, but suppose I could purchase one.  I do have an external hard drive that I've used for backup purposes, but my guess is that's not helpful for installing a new OS.  With that said, if I were to do a clean install on a new drive, don't I need to get that over to my "production drive" eventually anyway?  How would that work?

Note: the only reason I'm really interested in the upgrade is for security purposes.  With the Sceptre issue recently publicized I'm worried that I don't have the best possible security. I really don't care about additional features.

[mdklassen]

>  I do not have a spare disk drive, but suppose I could purchase one. 

Any small "owner/operator" computer-store probably will have a previously-owned disk-drive, say 320 GB for $30.

The point of the suggested "experiment", namely to test that a "clean install" of Windows 10 onto this "spare" drive will cause Windows 10 to load the correct device-drivers (from the Installation Media) and then, if necessary, download/install some device-drivers via Windows Update, to prove that your "pre-October-2013" computer is compatible.

Note that if the device-drivers are included with Windows 10, or are available via Windows Update, then there is no need for HP to put the same device-drivers onto the HP Support web-site -- needless duplication of effort.

So, saying that the HP Support web-site does not offer any device-drivers does *NOT* mean that there do not exist any device-drivers.

> I do have an external hard drive that I've used for backup purposes,

> but my guess is that's not helpful for installing a new OS. 

Correct.  Keep using it as a "backup" device.

> With that said, if I were to do a clean install on a new drive, don't I need to get that over to my "production drive" eventually anyway?  How would that work?

The "experiment" is just an experiment to prove that Windows 10 supports '1709' on your hardware.

If you purchase a "previously-owned" disk-drive, use it only for the experiment -- it probably is just as old as your "production" disk-drive.

If you purchase a brand-new disk-drive, and the experiment is successful, then, since it will have a warranty, then you can physically remove your "production" disk-drive, which probablhy is "out-of-warranty", and connect the brand-new disk-drive, and complete the installation (Windows Update, reinstalling application programs, reloading your personal files from your backup, et cetera).  You will have a "newer", and "larger capacity", and maybe "faster" disk-drive, with peace-of-mind that comes with proactively replacing the disk-drive.

Do you wait until your automobile tires are completely "bald" before you replace them?  Probably not.

Should you wait until your out-of-warranty disk-drive completely "fails" before replacing it?  Probably not.

> Note: the only reason I'm really interested in the upgrade is for security purposes. 

> With the Sceptre issue recently publicized I'm worried that I don't have the best possible security.

> I really don't care about additional features.

Meltdown and Spectre are just two vulnerabilities, out of many that have been discovered over many years.

Too many people are worrying too much about these two items.

Your computer has other vulnerabilities -- on Shrove Tuesday February 13, 2018, Microsoft will release security-updates to patch *SOME* of those vulnerabilities.

Should you stop using your computer until that date, if you are worried about your computer's security ???

Are you worried about the vulnerabilities that won't be patched on that date?

Are you worried about vulnerabilities that are not currently on Microsoft's "radar" -- namely, those currently unknown to them?

Further, note that you need to have an already-compromised computer before the Meltdown/Spectre vulnerabilities can be exploited.  If you leave your front-door unlocked, and the door to the safe in your home is unlocked, you are more vulnerable than if you lock your front-door.  Certainly, locking the safe is "defence-in-depth".

[isitme1]

Thanks for all the advice.  I'll try out the suggestions and see if I can get it working.  My computer runs perfectly fine despite being a bit older, I'm hoping I can keep it going.

[Grzwacz · Accepted solution]

Hi isitme1

You are very welcome.

You can create a system image of the new Windows installation, if it is successful, on the external drive.

Create a rescue disc or rescue USB stick using the disk imaging program of your choice.

Now you can restore this disk image to the current HDD.

Purchase a new HDD or SSD equal to larger than the current HDD to make the restore process easier.

I use Macrium Reflect free. Macrium's KnowledgeBase site has detailed instructions from downloading the software to creating rescue, media, creating images, and restoring images.

There is no complete fix for Spectre at this time. The ball is in Intel's court. Very few PC's are protected from Meltdown and Spectre.

Remote attacks are on the way.

Bleeping computer is reporting the bad guys are about to unleash malware aimed at Meltdown and Spectre flaws.

A little bit of JavaScript in a web page is all that's needed.

Looks like we will have to disable browser JavaScript or go offline. It is not the end of the world but leveraging JavaScript embedded in a web site, without the site owner's knowledge, to gain access to a web site visitor's protected processor kernel data is not something to laugh about. Don't develop a false sense of security based on faulty advice.

All PC's without the necessary OS and BIOS patches are at risk. Updating to the latest version of Windows 10 is not going to fix all of the latest security problems.

This is the latest Intel security update on Spectre. Check it out.

Your PC is also at risk for a previous Intel MEI vulnurability announced in early December 2017. HP has not issued a firmware and OS update to the latest version of Intel's Management Engine. The latest MEI driver for your PC was released in 2013. (see chipset drivers for Windows 8.1 using the link I provided in a previous post).

Tom

[isitme1]

Sadly, the new drive did not fix the issue.  Any other ideas out there?

[mdklassen]

---

Sadly, the new drive did not fix the issue.  Any other ideas out there?

---

Can you explain more about what you mean by "did not fix"?

If you installed from a DVD, maybe the media is scratched, and cannot be read.

Or, maybe the DVD-reader is not working perfectly?

Try a PM ("Private Message") to: Professor Grzwacz

for further assistance.

[isitme1]

I installed a new hard drive, hoping based on the previous advice that this might allow the windowns 1709 upgrade to load.  It did not do so.

There wasn't anything to do from a DVD, so that is not the issue.