06-11-2020 04:07 AM - edited 06-11-2020 04:32 AM
I understand that MS stagger the roll-out of Feature releases but if that were the case here it would simply not be offered, And I understand that 2004 has had / still has its issues (so no real change there) but I'm still intrigued to learn why it has been dangled before me and then pulled back ... 🙂
I'll look to see whether there is a separate thread on that topic since it seems different to the subject of this thread.
I guess that there are two basic strategies for updates:
- The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach which provides a stable, if increasingly outdated platform, and works reasonably well for everything but AV. And when something does go wrong you are left with a load of updates to apply in a relatively uncontrolled fashion.
- The "stay as current as possible" approach which means applying updates as soon as convenient once they are offered - which leaves you open to the occasional 'surprise' but at least you then know what caused it.
I tend to favour the later but it's a arguable choice either way.
Good spot on F.41! It is now defined as the latest BIOS for my Envy but is not being offered through HPSA. Looking at the release note it states: "Fixes issue where system would fail when running customer's tool" (sic) whatever that's supposed to mean! It may have a bearing on the version 2004 update question but I'm certainly not messing with the BIOS to find out. 😉
I guess we'll have to wait and see ...
06-11-2020 09:29 AM
Things do seem in a bit of a muddle in matters HP and MS, as well as the rest of the globe.
If I may, I'd like to pick your brains on the Defender thing. This:-
- I see that my disabled WD platform is 4.18.2004.6.0 , which is the April version. According to MS, the latest version (per a page dated June) is 4.18.2005.5, and I'm guessing this is the May "fixed" version that plays nicely with HP. There appears to be no method of obtaining and installing this update direct and without getting it using Windows Update.
- I have WU turned on and received other updates, but nothing has arrived to update from 4.18.2004 to 4.18.2005. Defender is still turned OFF, both by gpedit and also by using Avast, so I presume that this inhibits Update from including the May WD platform when it looks for and installs any updates.
- My question is this. If I turn on Defender with the aim of being able to get the May platform update, my system will be exactly as it was at the time of the KMODE BSODs, with the HP software failing against the April platform already installed and presumably that platform will run immediately Defender is re-enabled but before I can grab the May platform update via WU. Did you have a BSOD or problems when you re-enabled WD but before the latest May platform was downloaded?
06-11-2020 10:25 AM
You are most welcome to pick what's left of my brains, but you do so at your own risk ... 🙂
I assume that you identified the latest Windows Defender version information via the Microsoft page: Security intelligence updates for Windows Defender Antivirus and other Microsoft antimalware. This page also gives instructions to manually download and apply the latest updates. Clearly you need to be careful to download the version appropriate to your version of Windows etc. and I have no idea whether this will be successful in your situation with WD disabled and you may need a restart before the update shows up. I did try this back in May and got a tad confused as to exactly what happened when ...
I am 90% certain the WD updates in one go - i.e. by simply applying the latest update set. So if you were to re-enable WD today you should go straight to the current June version set:
- Client version: 4.18.2005.5
- Engine version: 1.1.17100.2
- Intelligence version: 1.317.1140.0
or maybe later versions still. (Updating this morning put me on Intelligence version 1.317.1126.0)
Looking back at my notes - yes, I have notes - I had Windows Update paused and Windows Defender running when I decided to take the plunge and get this back to normal rather than the other way around as you do. What I suspect that meant is that I managed to skip over the errant version of Windows Defender either when I updated manually or when I re-enabled Windows Updates.
The 'complication' is that we still don't know for certain what it was that caused WD to misbehave. Personally I suspect Touchpoint Analytics but we really don't know. But I am confident that it is something that runs periodically rather than being active all the time - so, I think (70% confidence) that you should have time to re-enable Defender and then run Windows Update without anything untoward happening in the intervening time.
Either way, it would be wise to take a System Image backup before experimenting ... 😉
06-12-2020 07:18 AM
Thanks for the information.
I think that I'll probably sit out the Defender thing anyway until the 2004 Feature, as there doesn't seem to be a need for it and two other AV etc. things which turn off WD (or which persuade WD to turn itself off). 2004 will probably require a reprise of the Windows/MS junk clearance sessions anyway (adieu, Xbox, Cortana, Candy Crush and Co.), so I'll save myself until then.
As for the possibility that the cause was/is something that runs intermittently, I've been through the lists for Task Scheduler (DOS schtasks /query + brief/verbose switches) and disabled the HP stuff. I'm still not happy with HPSA, but that's another story.
Because of all this, I have tbs of Macrium images, and these now present me with an interesting question of what historically is worth keeping. A brutal cull is needed before I run out of drive space.
06-12-2020 08:26 AM - edited 06-12-2020 08:33 AM
Hey guys, I'm just here to provide another data point. This happened more than 2 weeks ago, but I couldn't log on to my HP account, and today somehow I can again. So here it is:
My PC is a HP Pavilion Gaming Desktop - Intel Core i7 - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, which I bought 2019 july at Costco. Great PC! I bought a m.2 SSD and transfered the operating system to it with no issue. It came with Win10 home. In mid/early May, the problem we all know about started showing up. Turning off system update did not work. I recovered the system again and again until at one point even the recovered system started to have the same issue on the get-go. Then I had to format the disk and reinstall the system entirely and for some weird reason (an entirely separate story) the USB installation could not work and my PC basically bricked. As a last resort I went to ebay and bought a Win10 pro DVD (it's all authentic and stuff, surprisingly affordable) and installed from DVD. No more HP software. As a precaution I turned off the windows update and so far no issue has occured (knock on wood). I'm still unsure if the problem is solved, but I'm glad that it's been so far so good (what better can we ask for?)
From my experience I have these hypothesis about the cause:
1. Something's wrong about win 10 home
2. Something's wrong with the low-pixel and slow HP softwares that I never used
3. I had a HDD and SDD on the PC when the problem occured. Now I took down the HDD.
I will keep coming back to this thread until we have a closure on this issue.
06-13-2020 02:38 AM
Glad to hear you found a solution to this.
Regarding your hypotheses 1) and 3), the problem has occurred on both Home and Pro (I have Pro), and although the drive question has been raised, it seems that it's also happened on both single and dual SSD and HDD combinations.
The consensus is roughly that the crash has been caused by a conflict between HP software and a Windows element, probably Defender. This is why people have managed to recover by disabling Defender in gpedit or regedit. If one or both of these elements are taken out of the mix, then systems run. In your approach, you have removed the HP bit by your install from an independent MS Win10 distribution, and this backs up your point 2).
Unfortunately, no-one from either HP or MS, especially the former, appears to have contributed a definitive explanation or comment, but it seems that some sort of fix may have been applied via Update. It's not helpful to be left with so little information by those two parties.
06-13-2020 10:04 AM
Just to update on things, I restored my system using HP Cloud Recovery Tool. I was torn between using that or Windows Media Creation Tool (I downloaded both) but decided to use HP cloud and if it went bad I could always do it again using Windows Media. It's been 10 days and all seems well so far. I will say that using the HP tool gave me back McAfee AV and it's currently running so WD is turned off. Prior to the BSOD I had uninstalled McAfee so WD was turned on at the time of all this trouble. I'm taking things slowly and not rushing to uninstall everything I don't need just to be cautious. I have the 2004 update staring at me waiting for me to do but I've read it has problems so I don't plan to do it anytime soon.
I'll post more updates as I progress.
07-23-2020 08:26 PM
Melvin - i think i solved mine.
Was getting the blue screen exactly every 10 minutes. Over and over again. I updated all my drivers at Task Manager and then realised there was a BIOS update. One I updated that .. hsa been good so far.