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krzemien
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Re: SSD boot drive for my system

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I know it's a dated thread, but have not found any other similar one - so decided to piggyback off it.I am hoping that its participants will be able to shed some light for me here and point me in the right direction?

 

I am sadly stuck with SATA SSD -> NVMe SSD cloning exercise. To cut rather long story short (@grzwacz knows the details): the resulting clone via off-line Macrium image does actually boot okay and all seems working absolutely fine. But any PC restart or - for example - an attempt to boot onto built-in memory diagnostics (and similar other options from Advanced Boot) via restart results with logo-showing freeze which can only be escaped via CTRL+ALT+DEL, upon which Windows simply boots. I did try to run in-place upgrade to verify things that way and it exposed inability to reboot to finish things off-live (0XC1900101 – 0x20017 error if I remember okay).

 

So something's messed up and am not sure where. And I will appreciate your thoughts really on this.

 

What I have tried and done:

 

0. Original cloning exercise has unfortunately been done within Windows (don't ask, schoolboy error...). I really pray that nothing got knackered on the source disk...! NVMe was installed and formatted / tested when using original SSD as a boot drive and Samsung driver was installed.

1. I have used both Mini Tool Partition Wizard (win mode) and Samsung Data Migration (also win mode) - and do not recommend them for this work. I do own Acronis True Image (that I used off-line in the past to clone off the original SSD to the current one) but it does not recognise NVMe drives... I eventually settled for Macrium as it allowed me doing the deed off-line and seeing NVMe disk.

2. After cloning exercise is completed I am booting onto NVMe only - original SATA is always disconnected beforehand.

3. I did disconnect other disks I have once - it's quite telling that NVMe is usually shown as  Disk 2 in Disk Manager actually (Disks 0 & 1 are my other SATA devices and they jump to the front of the queue). Original setup shows SATA SSD being Disk 0.

4.I did restore via HP Recovery to a new NVMe SSD in some desperation (there's 3 years' worth of configuration and stuff on this PC - reinstall only to have it moved to newer & shiner disk is really the last thing I want to do) and this has worked. But when I was watching the process I decided not to pursue this avenue as there's thousands of things I would need to set up again.

 

Current state of the affairs is:

 

1. I'm back where I've been three days ago, except NVMe remains fitted in the slot and remains unpartitioned

2. I did check OS on the SATA SSD as much as I could and everything seems fine.

 

I have not tried disabling Secure Boot in UEFI - I did see it being mentioned above... What's the significance?

 

I really lost a lot of time trying to get to the bottom of it and am considering  my choices - perhaps will settle for lager SATA SSD instead and use this NVMe as a document store (my WD Black is not that fast)?

 

Your thoughts will be appreciated.

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krzemien
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An update for posterity: this task is sadly not possible. Full stop.

 

So - as per the thread on TenForums:

 

[edit]

 

An ultimate update here: after some additional thinking I decided to do as per the above: I settled for larger SATA SSD as an OS drive (clone will work fine, I'm sure, and SSD is on its way to me already) and am using NVMe as a fast document store, moving off WD Black

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krzemien
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Further observation to the above:

 

If I load Windows from the image on NVMe SSD (as I wrote: OS itself after clone loads and works fine - BIOS sees it initially as 'UEFI SAMSUNG...' source - but then recognises 'UEFI Windows Boot Manager' on this drive afterwards), and then restart and want to chose another source via Boot Menu (F9) - for example off-line Macrium Rescue Disk via DVD - booting via this source also fails: in case of Macrium I would be stuck on 'press any key to load from this CD'. The remedy again is to CTRL+ALT+DEL and then repeat procedure F9, upon which everything loads as expected.

 

To me it all points to something somewhere within the HP PC itself that disallows booting under such circumstances (so no straight full-blown OS load) from this cloned drive? Or NVMe driver not starting / not being registered somewhere?

 

I did find this yesterday evening:

 

https://superuser.com/questions/1452432/cloned-samsung-970-evo-plus-nvme-ssd-wont-boot-windows/14524...

 

The usual problem, whether you're migrating from IDE to AHCI or from AHCI to NVMe, is that the drivers are not configured to start on boot – they must be already present very early during the boot process, before the normal "device detection" system has been started. By default, Windows only boot-starts those drivers which were needed at installation time – the rest are still on the system but only get started "on demand" in a later phase.

 

Thoughts? But the Windows loads fine?

 

Any other ideas I can explore?

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krzemien
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...so decided to try the other suggestion: clean install (in my case restore to factory state via HP Recovery, 1607 release) and just swap of OS partition afterwards.

When HP installer was doing its things I realised that I need to update some key drivers as well as also will need the OS to upgrade to 1903/1909 to ensure boot partition will match prior to the swap. That I started doing and all went well until 1903 installer restarted for the second time and to my utmost surprise got stuck on the second reboot (off-line installation). Ha!

Although I am repeating this exercise as we speak, forearmed with this knowledge I immediately found suitable thread matching my problem:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...8-2aa2537db87f

So it does look like there's an issue here that Microsoft has introduced in 1903 release. And it does look like it's not resolved.

And I'm stuck as I really do not want to install 1903/1909 afresh as that will mean losing access to HP Recovery Partition via UEFI etc. Or in the worst case will require reinstalling the whole lot.

I need to consider my options really carefully - do not really have a time to faff with this nonsense.

krzemien
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An update for posterity: this task is sadly not possible. Full stop.

 

So - as per the thread on TenForums:

 

[edit]

 

An ultimate update here: after some additional thinking I decided to do as per the above: I settled for larger SATA SSD as an OS drive (clone will work fine, I'm sure, and SSD is on its way to me already) and am using NVMe as a fast document store, moving off WD Black

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Blackbite
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Fought the same fight here. After days of different tries I gave up and use my Samsung Evo 970 Plus NVMe SSD as data drive and not as boot device.

I have a HP Envy Phoenix 860-010 with Thimphu Mainboard and Z170 Chipset - all updated to the latest (BIOS, NVMe-Drivers from Samsung, etc.).

@Krzemien: What is your Hardware / Mainboard?

I think it is a BIOS-Thing. Let me guess why:

During PC-Restart the Power remains uninterrupted. Mainboard and Controllers stay "on line". A normal restart sends an initialize command to the SATA-Controlles. But doest this happen to the M.2 Port via PCIe-Lanes as well?

Another post stated that the exact same error with a Samsung Evo 970 Plus NVMe SSD was gone after a bios update. Before the update, the user had the same behaviour of the board: Restart didn´t disconnect the devices from power. After the bios update, the power was very shortly disconnected and reconnected. That seems to force a reset to the M.2 port and the System did restart without any problem.

Perhaps someone at HP will be able to give us a newer bios update which fixes this annoying problem.

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krzemien
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I am glad I'm not the only encountering this rather annoying issue.

 

Same hardware here: Thimphu for series 6 Intel CPUs based on Z170 (OMEN 870-095na), with all components, BIOS, drivers etc. being up to date.

 

Not sure if HP will do anything here as they will probably argue this modification is beyond the original spec and any allowed upgrades. Also, this PC is now >3 years old and I daresay has reached EOL support-wise.

 

I am also not sure if any OMEN 870-000 series PCs based on the same MoBo were shipped with NVMe disks - I actually doubt it, or the ones with factory-shipped NVMes were based on Thumphu-K supporting series 7 CPUs (and they would work okay and such upgrade would not pose such annoying problem).

 

In either case your explanation is plausible.

 

And I am happy with what I have as the temporarily play with NVMe as a OS disk did not really feel faster at all.

 

@MODS: any particular reasons why links to my post on external forums were snipped from my previous post?

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Blackbite
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Hi,

as you are fine with using the NVMe as data disc, it´s just an additional info... for your and others that get here.

 

I did another test yesterday with a fresh clone of my SATA SSD (done with the Samsung Tool).

All ended - not really suprising - with the same result of beeing able to Start Windows 10 1909. When I restarted the PC from within the windows start menu - guess what - it gave me the HP Logo on a black screen. Dead end...

 

Now the interesting part.... I went into the BIOS and just for fun I switched off "Secure Boot" but let UEFI-Boot enabled, Legacy disabled. 

 

The PC booted normal and I did a restart... the restart worked now!!!

I did a few power cycles, restarts, and so on, but everything was perfect. Just to be sure, I reenabled Secure Boot again. The system booted again but at the next explicit "restart" the HP Logo smiled again. So it is definitely the Secure Boot Option that prevents the sytem from a windows restart.

This is quite interesting, because it makes no sense to me. Why the hell does the NVMe boot fine with Secure Boot enabled but refuses a "restart" ??? Anyone able to explain this?

 

Nevertheless I have a solution now with which I can live quite well. Unfortunately my brand new Samsung Evo 970 Plus NVMe SSD has now 1,15 TB from it´s 300 TBW lifetime just for fiddleing about this annoying "restart thing" 😉

Greetings

 

 

 

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krzemien
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I suspected that it may be the case and have probably raised it in one of the posts either here or on TenForums...

 

But then - being a bit pedantic - I'd rather have Secure Boot enabled. To be honest never got any pros and cons of it in its entirety however...

 

So, well done.

 

Unfortunately my brand new Samsung Evo 970 Plus NVMe SSD has now 1,15 TB from it´s 300 TBW lifetime just for fiddleing about this annoying "restart thing"

 

Indeed, that was one of the key reasons why I stopped exploring this further: unnecessary churn of data.

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