HELP required to max out my first Z420 Project PC

[DGroves]

increasing the number of pci-e  links from x4 to x8 is pointless for a single SSD in a z420 as the SSD controllers used on ssd's are the limiting factor they have a hardware limit themselves

pci-e raid cards that use SSD's will use x8 or x16 links because there are 2 or more ssd's on the card

no, the z420 does not have a onboard m.2 slot as such AHCI ssd or dedicated pci-e ssd cards must use the PCI-E slots 

[Rhothgar]

Ah OK.  So that AHCI SSD you linked to for £41.99 will slot directly into the PCIe slot. That is what I was trying to get at.  Obviously I didn't make that clear.

I just look at these connectors and they all look the same.

Thanks again.

Hopefully BambiBoomz or Brian1965 will come on stream in due course and be able to offer some insight into why the Passmark level is so low on the Z420.

[DGroves]

NO NO NO!!! the M.2 AHCI SM951 i linked to REQUIRES A PCI-E card that has a M.2 socket on it

here's a link to a GENERIC pci-e x4 card that has the M.2 socket which is wired up for a ssd (AHCI/NVME)

https://www.newegg.com/glotrends-pa09-hs-pci-express-to-m-2-card/p/17Z-00SW-00004?Item=9SIAMKHATW872...

the m.2 socket is just that a socket,..... it can be wired up to support different devices such as PCI wireless cards or SATA SSD's or NVME/AHCI ssd's and the SSD is "keyed" with a slot to help ID the interface the M.2 socket is wired for

https://rog.asus.com/articles/guides/buying-an-m-2-ssd-how-to-tell-which-is-which/#:~:text=As%20the%....

and here's the HP specific pci-e card, which HP made with specific circuitry so it only works on the Z x20/x40 model workstations,....... the card is called the "G2" model when the NVME SM951 ssd is installed

https://www.hp.com/ca-en/campaigns/workstations/z-turbo-drive.html

[Rhothgar]

Thank you for the links.

However, the links within your links do not work.

Researching other posts, I found this:-

https://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04798669.pdf

It mentions Z6 and Z4.  Would this card, HP Part Number L32771-001 work in a Z420?  From what I can tell it is a PCIe3.0 x 4 card and this would need to be inserted into one of the PCIe3.0 x 16 sockets in the Z420.

I need to go through your earlier responses again that mentioned all kinds of different specs for Sata SSD.  Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree with this improvement and money will definitely be spent wiser elsewhere ie graphics card for sure.

Just found out this morning that Photoshop 2022 does not even run on the Z420. That in itself is not strange but looking at the specs for Photoshop 2020 which I currently have on my machine, it is supposed to require minimum 1.5Gb GPU yet it opens and runs with the 1Gb GPU currently installed in the xw4600.  

 EDIT:  I have received a reply from a seller who states he can find limited information online but what he has found is it is compatible with Z4, Z6 and Z8.  I assume that these are very different to Z4x0, Z6x0 and Z8x0 workstations.

I've also looked at PCIe x8 card for Dual AHCI/NVMe SSD's. They are priced around the £200 mark whereas you can get a PCIe x16 AHCI/NVMe for one SSD for like £16-£18 on Ebay!  HP ones which may or may not be compatible are around the £50 mark. 

[SDH]

You:  "It mentions Z6 and Z4.  Would this card, HP Part Number L32771-001 work in a Z420?"

Me:  No.

[Rhothgar]

@SDH

In reply to your earlier post.

BIOS
I have now upgraded the BIOS to 3.96 and all is well.

BIOS Settings
Iro the replicated setup.  Yes please. That would be interesting to see.  Maybe it will go some way to resolving the strangely low Passmark.  Please see my comments on this in this thread.

IRO Z420 vs Z440.

This was because of a previous topic where it was suggested Z420 is a big leap up from xw4600 and Z440 is likewise a big leap up from the Z420.  I can source a Z440 fairly cheap with low end processor at £200. Barebones from possibly £150.

ZTurbo Drive.
This is very useful to know.  Would you happen to know the HP Part Number for the "G1"?  Having read up about AHCI, I am no doubt wrong in this statement, but it seems there is almost NO benefit between a G1/AHCI M.2 drive and a SATAIII drive such as the Samsung 970 Evo Plus plugged into the 6Gb/s mobo sockets? Am I missing something here?

Memory:
Please see initial topic post. This unit has SK Hynix RAM.  Am I better off filling the other 4 slots with the same or selling those and filling with either 8 x 4Gb or 8 x 8Gb HP ECC Unbuffered?  What are the benefits of buffered that you infer?

Cooling
Do you know the specific HP Part Number for this air baffle that sits over the front RAM?  I am assuming you mean the RAM slots nearest the drive bays as the RAM at the rear does have a baffle already?

Iro HP 749554-001, it took me some time to identify what you was referring to with the two screws or one screw front and rear.  Once you know about this, it looks like it should have been obvious.

Thermal Compound
I have some Dow Corning 340 which should be good enough for the job as I bought it for our induction hob and that gets HOT!

Performance Chain Links
I wonder if this is where my Passmark is falling down.  Please see my comments regarding the differences in graphics made.  I may actually check the heatsink compound on the GPU as this could possibly be the reason why the performance ratings make no sense between the different cards.

[Rhothgar]

@SDH

Thanks for confirmation regarding the Z Turbo Drive card.

[DGroves]

The HP zturbo card as i previously stated is the same pci-e card for both versions,

when the card is equipped with a nvme ssd it's called the "G2"

on the Zx20 line of workstations only the AHCI pci-e ssd is bootable, the nvme based ssd's can only be used as a data drive

please take the time to read, go back to your link .......READ PAGE 4, on that it states:

Overview
c04798669 — DA-15373 — Worldwide — Version 7 — February 4, 2020 Page 4

Recommended Slot Order
For all HP Workstation platforms the tested and approved slots for the HP Z Turbo Drive Quad Pro are as follows

(in order of preference):

Z6 G4: Slot #4, Slot #6 (requires 2nd CPU), Slot #3 (requires 2nd CPU)
Z840: Slot #6, #4 (requires 2nd CPU), and #2*
Z6 G4 and Z4 G4: Slot 5
Z4 G4 with Core Processors: i9 – Slot #3, i7 – Not Supported
Z640 and Z440: Slot #5 and #2*
* Use of Z Turbo Drive Quad Pro in Slot 2 will necessitate moving the primary graphics card to an x8 or x4 PCIe slot, which could lead to reduced graphics performance.

do you see a z420 listed?  i sure did not, which means HP has not tested this card in your z420,

and the reason for this is that this card was released AFTER THE Zx20 SYSTEMS WERE OUT OF PRODUCTION/WARRANTY

this means your on your own in regards to support

next this card costs around 500.00 for just the card (No SSD's Included) your going to spend more for this card than what your z420 cost? there are other reasons which i'm not going to cover that make this a poor choice for the z420

[Rhothgar]

@DGroves

I wasn't sure if that link referred to the L32771-001 card to be fair as I am still trying to read up and find out what is best.

The L32771-001 looks nothing like the Z Turbo Drive Dual Pro card but neither can I find any specs on it.  It's like the fan that SDH was referring to. Same part numbers but different build qualities are available.  These workstations seem a proper minefield.

So far, I think I have come to the conclusion that unless I need to read/write large files to a data drive then there is perhaps no point in going down the route of an adapter based AHCI SSD card although mention is made of enabling the NVMe based boot drive via the Refind/Duet route.  Still I assume, rightly or wrongly, that to go down that route then the Z Turbo Drive Dual Pro card will not work even with that 'boot mode'.

I had hoped to have a NVMe based boot drive and then perhaps just a SATAIII SSD for data.

I could be going around in circles here but I am now thinking it is far easier to simply get something like a Samsung 870 Evo Plus as opposed to the current drive I have fitted at the moment which is a Kingston SA400S37/240G with read/write speeds of 500/350Mb/s.  The Samsung offers a marginal percentage increased in read/write performance.  

Obviously, that is not necessarily going set the world on fire but I'm now thinking until I can find the exact part number for the exact HP card adapter (as I would prefer to use the proper adapter) then I'll settle for lesser performance in this regard as the processor, RAM and graphics upgrade are probably more pressing.

The L32771-001 sold for £50 so it cannot be the same as the £500 card in any regard.

[SDH]

BIOS Settings:  I'll get you the Replicated Setup file from a Z420 v2, optimized for performance and speed.  It is based on a Legacy build, not UEFI build.  That is the way I build things, with MBR partitioning and NTFS long type formatting.  The Replicated Setup process is based on a BIOS capture of a small .txt file of all the settings that you can then use to import mine into your setup.  You also can capture yours first.  Keep these all carefully separated in different archive folders because they all have to have the same name.

IRO Z420 vs Z440:  I'm not getting involved with that.

ZTurbo Drive:  No, you are not missing the point.  The ZTD opens a small can of worms, not a huge one.  As I said before I recommend that especially you do not touch the ZTD.  There is a very small real upside and a very large very real downside, especially given what you have shown in terms of ease of confusion and willingness to go down any available rabbit hole.  I am sure your friends note this in you also, as do you.

Memory:  Depends on how much memory you really need.  Most think more is always better.  It is not, and can cost you alot for little return on investment.  I've run real world tests on these boxes with 32 vs 64 GB, and the biggest difference came from having all 8 slots filled with identical RAM.  Dan in WGBU, a favorite HP engineer, said long ago that this synergistic effect was so very worth striving for.  As I said if it was me I'd get 4 more identical 4GB sticks and call it a day.  Buffered:  tiny bit of added protection for data integrity of each bit.  Go look it up and quit asking questions you can answer yourself.  Very little benefit but server gurus like that as do medical gurus.

Cooling:  Baffle:  For best price search under both SP 663346-001 = AS 663070-001... the second (AS P/N) usually works best. Expect to pay up to $50.00 for this.   The rear memory cooling is based on a fan in a shroud that fits over that memory bank... look in your computer and quit asking such questions that you can answer yourself.

Thermal Compound:  I already gave you my advice and exactly what I'd do and why.  This is a critical link in the chain and I'd not cheap out on some goo you have sitting in a drawer.

Performance Chain Links:  The last thing I'll do because I promised is to get the replicated setup .txt file uploaded in the next few days, plus a HP PDF on improving performance that will be useful.  There are BIOS setting and OS settings that work together for best performance.  Highest performance generally demands more energy, so expect some heat and cost for that if you really need it.

Good luck to you on your project.  Over and out...