HP Z8-G4 New BIOS Problems w/ PixInsight

[silverlitz]

I recently updated my HP Z8-G4 BIOS to 02.95 Rev.A, which was released in Jan2025, and since then PixInsight (astrophotography imaging software) will frequently lock up my system requiring hard reboot. When this happens everything is totally frozen, and I cannot even move the cursor.

My prior BIOS was v2.86 and it was stable. My Z8 has 2x Platinum Xeons, with 56 total cores, and 384GB of RAM and is running Win11Pro.

The problems occur with WBPP, SubFrameSelector, and Thread Performance Analysis.  These are all high intensity processes, much of the time using all 56 cores and more than 200GB of RAM.

Is this a know problem?

Any solutions?

How can I revert back to v2.86 BIOS?  Where can I get it?

[DGroves]

no, the current Xeon bios listed is not currently known for causing any major issues or system instability

while at first thought your thinking that i just did a bios update and now my system is crashing seems logical in actuality it's not....

1 if you take the time to read the documentation (something 99% of people fail to do)  listing the fixes/changes to the bios releases you will most likely see no major changes or new features added only previously known issued fixed

2. most system crashes are almost always traced to software not hardware

3 windows writes a crash logfile  or a software crash logfile when there is a major issue you might want to read those logs for information related to your issues Event Viewer > System. (Windows logs) is a good place to start

https://www.manageengine.com/products/eventlog/kb/how-to-check-windows-crash-log.html

last i suspect even if you did force a bios downgrade you will still have this issue

[silverlitz]

The s/w in question was working before the BIOS update, and not after. There have not been any changes in the s/w. The s/w also works fine with my old Z840. I tried everything with my Z840 yesterday. The logical conclusion is the BIOS has problems with PixInsight. PixInsight was the main reason for getting the Z8 in the 1st place.

Again: Where can I get v2.86 BIOS? How can I revert back to it?

UEFI would only allow me to downgrade to v2.94, and it had the same issues.

[DGroves]

you make my case for my observation that a  older bios will (and did not) resolve your problem

i made my living troubleshooting user issues for many many years and i do have some experience in this field

at this point i will recommend you do a FULL OS restore install all current MS security updates and skip the feature updates

then create a windows restore point and now load your primary software application and nothing else in most cases this tends to resolve the stability issues for most people

many people resist doing this either because they tell themselves it won't do anything,.... to they can't spend the time to do so

my answer to this is that it's your system do what you want,..................all i can do is give you my recommendation on your request for help

[silverlitz]

I did the full Windows Reset that you suggested, and the behavior is exactly the same.  All I got out of it was babysitting the reset for almost 2 hours (and getting to bed very late).  And now I have to get all my myriad of s/w packages and their respective settings reinstalled.

From a risk management perspective, the time cost of the Windows Reset (and downstream s/w reinstallation) is MUCH more than BIOS downgrade, and therefore BIOS should have been tried first.  It is just a risk/return prospective tradeoff.

This reinforces my contention that BIOS v2.95 and v2.94 have untested problems with PixInsight.  I cannot expect HP to test every possible s/w function interaction with BIOS combination, as that would probably take decades.  But BIOS v2.95 has a fatal problem with intensive operations with PixInsight, while v2.86 did not.  PixInsight is the most heavily used s/w for astrophotography image processing, and PI really needs the processing capability of the Z workstations.

Again, where can I get BIOS v2.86 to reinstall?   And what are the steps?

[silverlitz]

Today, my Z8 locked up twice and this had nothing to due with PixInsight.  The behavior was exactly the same as previous: everything froze, the cursor would not move, JRiver also stopped playing (or just making repeating noise), the CPU fans ran full blast, and required a hard reboot.  At this time nothing CPU intensive was being done.  The timing of the problem coincided with JRiver 33 changing music tracks.  The 2nd time of this happening, I was actually composing this reply.  I have run JRiver 33 for at least 1 year on this Z8 without incident, until changing BIOS from v2.86 to v2.95.    Before playing a new music track JRiver: loads the file from HDD into RAM, transcodes DSD to 24-bit/96Khz PCM (for normal CD tracks are not transcoded but left at 16-bit/44Khz), performs Parametric Equalization (8 different frequencies, match target frequency curve from calibrated microphone),  output leveling (to adjust for varying loudness level from different albums), and then perform D/A to output to outboard preamp to powered monitors.  I have JRiver play music tracks out of RAM using these preprocessing steps for many years with Z400, Z440, Z840, and this Z8 using JRiver 18-27 and currently v33.   Today's problems were using DSD files, but these have been fine in the past.  My 1st problem from a couple weeks ago, also seemed to be timed with new DSD track changes, but also with high intensity PixInsight processes also running.  I have limited PixInsight to use at a maximum 110 of the possible 112 threads.   My old Z840 allows PixInsight to use all available 48 threads without ever having an issue.

I have also ran virus and malware scans, and nothing has shown up.  I also ran HP Hardware Diagnostics, fast for everything and complete for CPUs, and everything past without problem.  I also posted these incidents on the PixInsight forum, and they also suggest reverting to the old BIOS, as something is wrong with the new bios (ram clocking/voltage settings, cpu clocking/voltage settings, speedstep, etc.).

I still need access to the old BIOS v2.86 which I ran for more than a year without incident.

[silverlitz]

This JRiver processing does not tax the Z8 at all.  I am currently running on the exact same tracks and watching Task Manager.  While playing the track the Z8 is loafing at 1% CPU, and at the beginning of the new track it jumps to 2-3% for a short period (assume to do the loading to RAM, transcoding, and parametric equalization).  It just went to the next track without incident.

[SDH]

The current BIOS .bin file is P60_0295.bin and the one you ask for is P60_0286.bin. As you know those come inside an executable SoftPaq and the .bin file can be extracted from that by running it on any computer but cancelling out after it is run and going into C drive and look there for SWSetup. Inside there will be a folder with the softpaq name and inside that folder will be other directories several of which will contain the .bin file.

If only you knew the SoftPaq number for that 2.86 one... there is a way to deduce its download address in the current HP FTP servers. The addressing has changed from the past and the recent download addresses provided only go back about 3 older versions behind 2.95 but the FTP servers are an archive in which older official ones reside.

If you were to search for P60_0286.bin or P60_0286 that may get you the bin file alone, but there are risks if you don't get it straight from HP. Proceed at your own risk. Also, HP has restricted the downgrading of BIOS but there may be a method to still do that (again at your own risk).

[silverlitz]

Yesterday, I had the issue again.  The system was not doing anything intensive, but it kicked off after checking something in Acronis.

Afterwards, I check the UEFI and checked the BIOS event log, and I saw several of the following events, which seemed to be coincide with my problems:

972 - global reset cause: ME FW Initiated Global Reset

[SDH]

Do you really need ME turned on? I usually run our workstations with that turned off in BIOS unless there is a true need for it.

Under a "Z840 drivers" google search the HP top result has a ME firmware update from the past. It does not show up under their W11 OS option results but does under the W10x64 section, down in the Firmware section. You can see what ME FW version you currently have from BIOS.  The update available gets you VERSION: 9.1.45.3000 REV: A PASS: 1.