HP Z800 Upgrade with Titan Xp or Quadro M5000? Power Upgrade? Cooling Upgrade?

[Prettypicgirl]

Hi,


I do run a HP Z800, spec here:

2x Xeon X5650@2.67GHz
RAM 72GB
Current Graphic Card Nvidia Quadro 5000
850 Watt Power supply.
Windows 10Pro 64Bit latest release

I am working in architectural visualisation, predominantly I create spherical 360 degree still images.
Rarely I ceate movies (yet).
Picture size typically 12000 x 10000 pixels. Post processing happens with Affinity Photo.

To model and render I use Vray 3.6 for Rhino 5.0. Vray can handle the combined use of CPU & GPU via Cuda.
Still, when doing this the images turn out grainy/noisy despite the denoiser beeing on.
CPU alone rendering works fine but is slow, that why I want the combined power.

My current graphics card Quadro 5000 never shows much usage in the Nvidia GPU utilisation graph and I get an CUDA error 2 : unable to allocate enough memory to perform the requested operation (out-of-mem).
I suspect a settings error.

I'd like to upgrade the graphics card to fix this. The choice is:

Titan Xp or Quadro M5000.

McNeel, manufacturers of Rhino3D suggest that there is no real benefit of using a Quadro over a GeForce card.

https://wiki.mcneel.com/rhino/rhino5videocards

So I wonder if I can get a Titan Xp for the same price as the M5000  should I go for it?

Do I need to upgrade powersupply and/or cooling if I take the Titan? Would either card fit physically?
(The M5000 does not need these upgrades).

Thanks so much,

Pretty

Ps.: Will two X5690 work with the existing cooling&power?

[DGroves]

to run dual 130 watt cpu's (5690) you will need the upgraded 1150 watt supply.

also you will need to either install the watercooling kit or upgrade to the high power heatsinks (have 3 not 2 heatpipes)

which are a bit larger than the stock 90watt heatsinks

i can not answer your software questions as i don't use these apps

as for titan-X,  i would recomend the 1150 watt supply, but if using low pwr cpu's (85 watt) the stock supply will work

if your system is not maxed out with ram/drives/expansion cards

Edit: i spoke with a friend who does Pro-E type work, and he said your cuda error is most likely due to your render file having to many polygons or related commands that are exceeding the current cards vRam (GPU onboard memory)

he gave me this link which may help you

https://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=44994

http://forums.cgarchitect.com/71683-vray-rt-not-working-cuda-engine-2xgtx680-print.html

[BambiBoomZ]

Prettypicgirl,

Vray in standard configuration is processor-based rendering. If you want to run on the GPU,  the RT mode needs to be engaged. The CPU is used also in RT,  but the large number of CUDA cores make the RT mode very much faster.

I make VRay for Sketchup renderings in  3180 X 2144 and I have so much better results in CPU mode- more refined reflections, color gradations, I've rarely used RT.  [ z620:  E5-1680 v2 8-core / 64GB RAM / Quadro P2000 5GB]

If McNeel suggests GeForce GTX, consider the current Pascal GTX series: 1060, 1070, 1070 Ti, 1080, 1060Ti. There is currently (2.18) a shortage of high-performance GPU's due to the crytocurrency mining frenzy, so prices for GTX can be doubled, tripled, or out of stock.

However, the new Pascal Quadros have quite improved performance over the previous Maxwell and Kepler series such that the GTX advantage is far less.  For example, the Quadro P2000 ($430) has an average Passmark 3D mark of 8472 (mine scores 9003) whereas the Quadro M5000 averages 8488. The Quadro K6000- $2,400 new averages 7694.  however, with the large scale of your renderings, I'd suggest looking into either the feasibility of a pair of P2000's to have a total of 10GB memory or for about $850, a Quadro P4000 8GB.  The P4000 averages a Passmark 10389 and a GTX 1070 which has the same GPU averges 11071, but the top score on Passmark is 14579. < That, owever, might represnet a pair. The Titan Xp averages 13461. The 10389 average is faster than the Quadro P5000 of 10161 and that costs $1,837.  For comparison, . The highest average of all GPU's is the Titan Xp Collector's Edition of 14887- about $1,400.  This is a very useful chart:

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php

There is a feature of Quadros though that may or may not make them essential and that is color depth. This is a complex subject, but the output color depth of GTX may still be 8-bit whereas a P4000 can run 12-bit- or the 12-bit may be the internal depth.

Another possibility for your very large renderings is to run then on a combination of a Quadro and a GTX.   See:

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Business-PCs-Workstations-and-Point-of-Sale-Systems/SOLVED-Quadro-P200...

The other aspect to rendering on that scale is to have as much RAM as you can. Your 72GB is quite a good amount, but you might maximize it. 

The sysem would benefit greatly by changing the X 5650 (2.66 / 3.06GHz) to the X5680 (3.33 / 3.6GHz) or X5690 (3.46 /3.73GHz).  The X5680's and x5690 would need the larger PSU as those are 130W. On the Passmark the highest CPU scores are using 2X X5680: 15209 , 15042,  X5690: 14940.

You might consider trying the free trial of Passmark PeofrmanceTest and see where your system is as compared to the 784 other z800's tested.

What are you using for your drives?

A big subject, but if anyone needs the highest graphics system performance, it is someone working at 12000 x 10000.

I'd be very interested to see an example of your 360 deg. spherical images.

BambiBoomZ

[Prettypicgirl]

Hi,

thanks for the answers.

Since then I have been pointed to the GTX 1080 Ti by someone with a similar usage profile as mine. Aparently about 95% of the calculation power of the Titan Xp for less cost and half the cost of the Quadro M5000.
In benchmarking it seems even better than the Titan Xp.

See the attached screenshots.

So that might be my choice for the graphics card. Might even add a second one of the same type later.
Even though there seems to be an issue on the Z800 Motherboard whichis apparently licensed for SLI on Quadro cards only.
There are indications though it might work with a hack called "Different SLI". Any experiences with that? Do I need SLI to use both via CUDA? I do not play games so need no superior display results but only nice render results.

Speaking of which. The full resolution renderings serves two purposes.

 Local at the clients installed VR Tours & base for print images which can be cropped out of the high res images.
The online VR Tours have reduced resolution images as base.

As the tours are owned by the clients I can not just post them here. 
Unfortunately the forum does neither allow the  upload of such big files.
Still I can sent you a link if you sent me an email adress of yours.

Regarding drives, windows is on a SSD the work files on two 1GB drives as Raid 1.

So I think in general the upgrade procedure will be /spreaded out over several months...):

Step 01
Replace with Quadro 5000 with  1x GTX 1080TI

Step 02
Add 1250Watt Power supply
Add better heatsinks if necesssary  (I have the X5650 already in so I should already have the right heatsinks, no?)
Replace processors by 2x X5690

Step 03
Add second 1080Ti

Step 04

Add more RAM. I have at the moment 6x8GB & 6x4GB. Will than throw out the 4GB and replace with 6x16GB.

Step 05

Finally replace 6x8GB RAM with 6x16GB

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

If you have more comments, please keep them coming.

Pretty

[Prettypicgirl]

Btw. GTX 1080 Ti seems sold out from Nvidia directly.

https://www.nvidia.de/graphics-cards/geforce/pascal/gtx-1080-ti/

Anyone know which ones branded by other manufacturers is suitable? Which one is a good choice? I hear MSI or EVGA as suggestion.(?)
I prefer a not to niche manufacturer as I might want to buy a second one later.
Regarding the looks of the card I do not care at all, they live inside the Z800 and noone will see them anyway. Good price is of course desired as well.
I run two monitors at most on it and one of them is onl meant as auxillary.

https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/ProductCategory/16073F1263559.html?param.resultlist.sortKey=min...

Thanks,

Pretty

[DGroves]

one thing you might want to keep in mind is the total costs of ugrading the z800's cpu/ram/pwr supply/heatsinks

then check the cost of a used z820 on ebay that has all of these installed you might find that upgrade is also a viable way to go. the z820, have UEFI support for large drives, cpu's with more cores, and hold more ram

the z820 also has native usb3.0 and pci-e 3.0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z820-Workstation-2x-Xeon-E5-2670-2-6ghz-16-Cores-64gb-256gb-SSD-2Tb-Win7...

[Prettypicgirl]

Hi,

valid point, BUT, for the moment I do not want to invest in all of it. It depends a little what jobs come up next.
But, your right, there is some point to it.
Initially the plan was to only upgrade RAM & Graphics.

Maybe I could do that with one card 1080Ti for now on the Z800 and than get a 820 next year and move the better card and RAM to it. That way I would save the heatsink & powerpack & better processors.

I could still run the Z800 than as a node with the old Quadro 5000 and the trusty X5650.

Thanks,

Pretty

[DGroves]

buy the card as a motherboard/gpu bundle (it's much cheaper this way) from a retailer such as best buy

then either keep the board for a sec system or resale the board if you want another workstation from HP

[Prettypicgirl]

Hey,

thanks for that idea.

Still a question, how can I find out what motherboard would work best in the Z800? I would still want to be able to use my  "server type" ram with it.

Or would I then just buy the bundle because its cheaper & resell the motherboard while keeping the card?
Does it matter how the GTX 1080Ti is branded (inside its a GTX  1080Ti anyway, isn't it?). I hear MSI & EVGA are good.

One more 😉 if I would buy a

MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X11G

now, could I later team it up with a

MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Armorg X11G or any other brand/version which has a GTX 1080 Ti inside?

Thanks for clarifying,

Pretty

[DGroves]

all 1080 cards are for the most part the same, they differ only in the cooling solution and bundled accessories/games and warranty while there are some using custom boards, this makes little diffrence as nvidia forbids card makers from exceeding the max specs on the gpu chip 

so i recomend you buy based on warranty, and  how many slots the card uses, and i would stay with the reference designs that are 180 watts and ignore the factory overclocked ones that draw 230 watts as the actual diffrence between the two 

is not worth the price premium and power draw increase IE-$200.00 for 4% gain

a z workstation can only fit a corsponding  z motherboard IE- a z820 board will not fit a z800 and same for the z840

buy the gpu/mb bundle then determine if building a new system with the board is worth it to you. if not sell the board