Highest End Z400 Build

[nelsona]

Hello,

I have an old Z400 (Gen 1 with 6 Dimms) and was wondering what upgrades I could do to max out the system to its highest point?

In other words, I'd assume as far as CPU's go that either the Xeon w3690 or x5690 would be the highest end CPU I could buy for the system.

But what about RAM, can I assume that 48 Gigs is the highest capacity (6 x 8 Gigabytes of DDR3 @ 1333)?

Also, would it be possible to boot off of an M.2 like the Samsung 950 (using a PCIe adaptor)?

As far as SSD's go, would I need to purchase another PCIe adaptor to push SATA III @ Gbps (if I purchased something like a Samsung 850 Pro)?

As far as aftermarket coolers go, would a Noctua DH-15 fit in the chasis (I assume that I'd have to remove the plastic shroud over the RAM slots)?

Lastly, has anyone tried overclocking something like a x5690? If so how high were you able to push it (while remaining stable 24x7).

Thank you,

Nelson

[banhien]

Hi,

I don't know where do your get its specs but the following document for the whole series;

            http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c01709671

Regards.

[nelsona]

Hello banhien,

I understand that HP doesn't officially support processors such as the W3690 or X5690, but I've heard multiple users claim that they were able to successfully use such processors.

The same goes with RAM, I understand that 24 GB is the official limit, but I've heard of other users going higher.

Nelson

[SDH]

deleted.... double post....

[SDH · Accepted solution]

You will find a lot of info in here, and the best way to start is to use the top left search box on this page because it targets this forum only.  For example use it to find postings like  THIS.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Business-PCs-Workstations-and-Point-of-Sale-Systems/Z400-Aftermarket-Up...

You will also discover info on the two main versions of the Z400 and that you probably do not have a generation 1 motherboard (I call that the Version 1, and there is Version 2 if you have the second major release of the Z400).  That later one is what you own if you really have 6 instead of 4 memory sockets.  The boot block date seen under the first tab in BIOS is another great way to tell.... it is 11/10/09 if you have Version 2 and 1/30/09 if you have Version 1.

AVID has a PDF on the Version 1 versus Version 2 issue  HERE.

You need to read up on Mainstream versus Performance heatsink/fan for the Z400.... it is all in here.  Most Z400s came with the Performance one, which can handle the hot 130W max TDP processors such as the x5690.  That is what I'm running in our Version 2 Z400s here.

Update to the latest BIOS as a first step.

Memory..... this German company talks about the 6-slot Version 2 as being able to run 6 x 8GB sticks for 48 total, and they sell them too....  HERE.  I have not tried that and there likely are certain 8GB sticks that work best for that.  Search in the forum for that, and let us know with a followup post if you do that.

Google "Z400 spare parts" for the HP listing of what they have available and some part numbers.  For the X5690 used on eBay search there for its single sSpec code of SLBVX.  It works great.

Welcome, and good luck on your project.....

[nelsona]

Thanks SDH,

I'll start searching in the forums...

Quick question about the RAM, can I assume that any ECC DDR3 @ 1333 will work, or do I need to purchase special brands (as I assume all RAM manufacturers adhere to the JEDEC spec).

Thank you,

Nelson

[nelsona]

Also, about the RAM maximum, can I assume that the memory controller is on the CPU itself?

The reason I ask is that I've seen 16 GB DDR3 ECC 1333 1.35 sticks:

http://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/KVR13LR9D4K3_48.pdf

...for a maximum of 96 GB (6 x 16).

Obviously that's a ton of RAM, but given that the X5690 can address up to 256 GB, can I assume that I shouldn't be limited by anything else?

Thanks once again,

Nelson

[SDH]

I've assumed that the memory for the Z400 and Z600 (all Version 2) workstations that we use would be cross compatible in memory, and so far that has been the case.  I generally only use HP memory, usually bought used off eBay for these because HP "bins" their memory to be better than stock memory from the same suppliers, reportedly (and stated by HP).

The memory controller for these workstations is a 3 channel design, and Dan_WGBU (our favorite and very helpful HP engineer) has emphasized that 6 identical sticks is the way to get best performance out of the controller.  I believe Dan used to have a souped up Z400, and maybe still does.  He seems to know quite a bit of details on that box.  He has posted recently on 8GB memory sticks for the Z620, about registered versus unregistered and single rank versus more than one rank, and the power draw of different 8GB sticks, and that what is available now in single rank was not available back during the HP certification process so that what you might not be able to do back then you might be able to do now with single rank and not loose memory speed.  You may wish to search him out about your question on this, because the RAM changed between those two generations (ZX00 vx ZX20), but the principles may be the same.

Turns out that the official HP specs for "supported" does not always mean that only those specs will work.  The X5690 was never in the official specs or supported, but it works great in the Version 2 Z400, and supposedly also in the Version 2 Z600.  There are posts in here about running 48GB RAM in the Z400, and you can find them.

I'm running 6 x 4GB max in our Z400s/Z600s, and I'm using the following HP part numbers for eBay searching:

500210-071

500210-571

500210-572

661524-001

Don't go buying it all up!

Finally, all the variations in RAM can drive you nuts..... part of why I'm doing what I am with RAM is to avoid that because if its from HP with the right part number on it I know it will work.

[nelsona]

Hello SDH,

Thank you for Dan_WGBU contact (I've sent him a PM).

As for HP's certified RAM, unfortunately it's a little low in capacity for my needs (as I deal with single plugins / applications which can easily use up 4 - 8 GB), that being said, thank you for looking up the model numbers.

Nelson

[SDH]

Nelson asked me some questions that I thought would be best answered in the forum for others to have as reference to in the future:

Hello SDH,      I was looking at upgrading my HP Z400 Gen 1 (with 6 Dimm slots) to the highest level possible.  I noticed the following thread:

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Business-PCs-Workstations-and-Point-of-Sale-Systems/Z400-Aftermarket-Up...      ...where you mentioned that as far as CPU's go, either the W3690 or the X5690 would be the highest end CPU's.  I understand that the X5690 is meant for dual socket systems, but the following comparison of both CPU's:

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-X5690-vs-Intel-Xeon-W3690       ...seems to indicate that the X5690 not only can overclock higher than the W3690, but also isn't limited to 24 GB of RAM.  If you feel that the X5690 is really the highest end module CPU, as far as RAM goes, what's the highest capacity I can fit into the Z400?

Also (and I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this), but can I assume that booting off of a M.2 is not supported on a Z400 (if I was to use an M.2 to PCIe adapter)?

Also, as far as SSD's go, would I need an adapter to ensure that my SSD's are actually running at SATA III / 6 Gbps?

I'm sorry for all the questions, but I'm basically looking at building the fastest (both in CPU and SSD) Z400 with the most amount of RAM (as I bought the Z400 used a year and a half ago, and it has become my main audio production system).

Also, if I was to put in a nice GPU, like a single Nvidia 1080 or a Titan X (doubtful I'd go with the Titan X, unless I bought it used), would I be limited by the motherboards PCIe lanes (in other words, would it even make sense to go up that high in GPU performance).  And, would I need a new power supply?

Answers:

All your questions point towards you perhaps being wise to buy a Z440 or a Z420.  If you go for a Z420 make sure to get the Version 2 type.  Now, on to the Z400:

1.  You can't overclock on HP workstations because those options are not built into BIOS.  There may be some hacks but I'd not recommend that.  You are right that the X5690 can run on dual CPU motherboards because it has 2 QPI links but the W3690 only has 1 QPI link.  The X5690 does not seem to care that it could run in a Z600 when it is in a Z400, and that is partly why I bought the X5690, thinking that I could get a second later and run two in one of my Z600s to do speed testing.  They are not cheap, however, partly because the darn Apple crowd has a use for these exact same processors too.  Competition......

2.  The 24GB limit listed by Intel for the W3690 contrasts with the much higher limit listed for the X5690, but remember that there is a memory controller involved too, on the motherboard.  HP has put limits in their specifications that may be set by component availability, certain cost constraints, and power draw constraints that existed when they did the qualification runs way back, and these constraints may not fully apply now.  However, HP is not doing added qualification runs for these older workstations, nor would I expect them to.  That is our job now.....   I have posted on a German company that sells memory kits for the Z400 Version 2 (6 memory slots instead of 4) for 48GB total, so it sure seems that it can be done.  Dan_WGBU is a HP engineer and as such he cannot just post that it can be done here given that the official stance is that 24GB is the upper limit.  Dan can give some hints to help our experimenting, however.  Hopefully others on the forum here will let us know, too.  Knowing the exact type of 8GB sticks is key, as is the source, if it can be done.

3a.  Booting off a M.2 SSD from a PCIe adapter.... there have been recent posts in this forum exactly on that issue for the Z400, and there are specific ones that can do it.  I just have not yet pulled the trigger here, waiting on some added info from the guy who has that running perfectly at his home on his Z400.  Go find that info..... I'm interested but the 2.5" form factor SSD for booting is working mighty fine here.  My needs likely are quite different than yours, however.

3b.  SSD adapter..... You need to get up into the ZX20 workstations to get native SATA generation III port(s) and the Z400 SATA ports are all SATA generation II.  You can get a SATA generation III card to plug in to your fastest PCIe slot available.  You'd want PCIe generation III for that, but if I recall correctly your PCIe slots are all generation II.  For the xw6400 they all are gen I, and for the xw6600 only the two video slots were gen II.  There have been some forum posts on this issue for you to search.

4.  nVidia 1080 draws 180W max TDP and nVidia states that the recommended system power be 500W so you're getting up there in power usage, but the SSD is a lower power draw.  The latest QuickSpecs for the Z400 listed the nVidia Quadro 5000 as an approved card, and that draws 152W max, for perspective.  Lot will depend on your memory sticks..... they will be sucking wattage from that available too so you need to take that into account.

5.  Those higher wattage power supplies for the Z400 are hard to find, but findable.  As with all the other items above, the wise saying again comes into play......  "Nothing that money can't fix."  I'm guessing you are wanting more than you actually need (and aren't we all?).

p.s.  Add in a front case cooling fan as described in my "ghetto mod" posts here, or get the official HP front case fan holder.  There is a motherboard fan header for that at the front bottom corner.  You'll want some added air flow.  You may not need to do that if your new video card is the "blower" type rather than an internal air circulator type.