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HP Recommended
HP Z420
Microsoft Windows 10 (64-bit)

I know this topic was discussed in an older thread, but thread was closed.  

 

I just purchased a used Z420 with 32GB ram, 1650v2, liquid cool option, and 600 watt power supply.

 

There were a lot of options on EBay utilizing processors not listed in the Z420 spec sheet.  I’m looking at lowest cost for highest core and clock speed.  The 1680 v2 still seems high and not as available as 2687 v2.  I was hoping someone had experience using the 2687 v2 in a Z420.  I’m planing on building a small render farm.

 

I have a Z820 with 2X E5-2687 v2’s but it requires the 1125w power and Liquid Cooling.  

 

Thanks for for any insight!

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Accepted Solutions
HP Recommended

Chance 001,

 

In my opinion, the Xeon E5-2687W v2 was one of the best E5 Xeons.  The reason is principally that the clock speeds for an 8-core processor are very good- 3.4 /4.0 Turbo and it may be used as a pair.  The high Turbo speed makes it faster for simulations, and 3D CAD while the 8-cores at the all-core speed of probably 3.6 or 3.7GHz is reasonable for well-threaded applications.

 

There is, however, an important concern with the E5-2687W v2 in a z420; the power rating of 150W.

 

As mentioned, when the 2687W v2 was sold new in z820's, the liquid cooling and larger (1125W) power supply was, it seems, quite strictly required:

 

http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04111526.pdf    ( Page 4)

 

It's natural to question as to whether the z420 CPU socket can supply the 150W for the E5-2687W v2. On Passmark results, there are two z420's using an E5-2687W v2, with CPU scores of 15524 and 16125 where the average  in all systems for single processor use seems to be about 16900. The use in z420 is a tiny sample, but there may be power and/or thermal-related throttling.

 

This concern is sufficient to suggest an alternative, the closely related E5-2667 v2 8C@3.3/4.0.  The base clock speed is only -100MHz to the 2687W v2 and, importantly, the power rating is 130W instead of 150W. These are also less expensive. The Passmark CPU mark average for a single E5-2667 v2 is about 16700,  and in the single z420 result, the score is 16171- slightly better than the faster and more expensive best 2687w v2 result in a z420.  That is to say; the average 2667 v2 figure is higher than the best 2687w v2 result in a z420. The number of samples is small, but the power consideration is fundamental and the 2667 v2 appear to perform as well or better than the 2687W v2.

 

For a render farm using CPU-based rendering, and / or with GPU acceleration- i.e, if the performance benefit is from more cores as compared to higher clock speed and single-thread, consider the Xeon E5-2680 v2 and E5-2690 v2 10 -cores which are considerably less expensive than the E5-2687W v2. An E5-2680 v2 is half the cost of an E5-2687W v2 and has +2 cores. In a z420, the high Passmark CPU mark for E5-2680 v2 is 16885 and for the E5-2690 v2- 16948.

 

If single thread is important for 3D modeling, that returns to the E5-2667 v2 recommendation.  

 

The E5-1680 v2 8-core is a consideration as well as it may be overclocked using the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility (as may E5-1650 v2 and E5-1660 v2 6-cores ). In the US at least, the 1680 v2 price is not too far different to a 2687W  v2.  In a z620 the E5-1680 v2 at 4.3GHz has a CPU rating of 17125 and a single thread mark of 2364 where the 2687W v2 average is 2037. For all-round use, with both high modling and rendering perofrmance, the 1680 v2 would be my first choice, but a high rendering use would require a high level of liquid cooling that is difficult in a proprietary workstation.  I have an external unit,  not yet installed, an Alphacool Eiswand open loop, and forum friend Brian1965 engineered and built an external unit for his z620 / E5-1680 v2 that runs at 4.7GHz.  Neither of these solutions is simple or inexpensive.

 

With any choice, for a rendering-specialized system, consider having 64GB of DDR3-1866 ECC Reg, the liquid cooler, and a fast drive. 

 

On the subject of RAM, when using VRay in a z420 /E5-1660 v2 / 32GB system,  I had multiple faiilures of 3180 X 2160 renderings as the setup required 37+GB of RAM but and have  had no problems with 64GB.

 

Whichever processor is chosen, given that it will be running for many hours continuously under 100% load, consider the special z420 all in one liquid cooler:

 

Image result for z420 all in one liquid cooler:

One of these in a z620 and allows an E5-1680 v2 to run on all 8-cores at 4.3GHz.

 

Drives are important as well. The OS drive in the z620 is an HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI and a Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 500GB was recently added (NVMe can be used without BIOS modification as a data drive) - and that pair makes files really fly.

 

All things considered, the E5-2667 v2 seems a good choice for the CPU.


BambiBoomZ

 

z620_2: Xeon E5-1680 v2 8C@4.3GHz / z420 liquid cooling / 64GB DDR3-1866 ECC Reg / Quadro P2000 + GTX 1070 Ti / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI + Samsung 970 EVO NVme M.2 500GB + HGST 7K6000 4TB > HP OEM Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

 

View solution in original post

5 REPLIES 5
HP Recommended

Chance 001,

 

In my opinion, the Xeon E5-2687W v2 was one of the best E5 Xeons.  The reason is principally that the clock speeds for an 8-core processor are very good- 3.4 /4.0 Turbo and it may be used as a pair.  The high Turbo speed makes it faster for simulations, and 3D CAD while the 8-cores at the all-core speed of probably 3.6 or 3.7GHz is reasonable for well-threaded applications.

 

There is, however, an important concern with the E5-2687W v2 in a z420; the power rating of 150W.

 

As mentioned, when the 2687W v2 was sold new in z820's, the liquid cooling and larger (1125W) power supply was, it seems, quite strictly required:

 

http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04111526.pdf    ( Page 4)

 

It's natural to question as to whether the z420 CPU socket can supply the 150W for the E5-2687W v2. On Passmark results, there are two z420's using an E5-2687W v2, with CPU scores of 15524 and 16125 where the average  in all systems for single processor use seems to be about 16900. The use in z420 is a tiny sample, but there may be power and/or thermal-related throttling.

 

This concern is sufficient to suggest an alternative, the closely related E5-2667 v2 8C@3.3/4.0.  The base clock speed is only -100MHz to the 2687W v2 and, importantly, the power rating is 130W instead of 150W. These are also less expensive. The Passmark CPU mark average for a single E5-2667 v2 is about 16700,  and in the single z420 result, the score is 16171- slightly better than the faster and more expensive best 2687w v2 result in a z420.  That is to say; the average 2667 v2 figure is higher than the best 2687w v2 result in a z420. The number of samples is small, but the power consideration is fundamental and the 2667 v2 appear to perform as well or better than the 2687W v2.

 

For a render farm using CPU-based rendering, and / or with GPU acceleration- i.e, if the performance benefit is from more cores as compared to higher clock speed and single-thread, consider the Xeon E5-2680 v2 and E5-2690 v2 10 -cores which are considerably less expensive than the E5-2687W v2. An E5-2680 v2 is half the cost of an E5-2687W v2 and has +2 cores. In a z420, the high Passmark CPU mark for E5-2680 v2 is 16885 and for the E5-2690 v2- 16948.

 

If single thread is important for 3D modeling, that returns to the E5-2667 v2 recommendation.  

 

The E5-1680 v2 8-core is a consideration as well as it may be overclocked using the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility (as may E5-1650 v2 and E5-1660 v2 6-cores ). In the US at least, the 1680 v2 price is not too far different to a 2687W  v2.  In a z620 the E5-1680 v2 at 4.3GHz has a CPU rating of 17125 and a single thread mark of 2364 where the 2687W v2 average is 2037. For all-round use, with both high modling and rendering perofrmance, the 1680 v2 would be my first choice, but a high rendering use would require a high level of liquid cooling that is difficult in a proprietary workstation.  I have an external unit,  not yet installed, an Alphacool Eiswand open loop, and forum friend Brian1965 engineered and built an external unit for his z620 / E5-1680 v2 that runs at 4.7GHz.  Neither of these solutions is simple or inexpensive.

 

With any choice, for a rendering-specialized system, consider having 64GB of DDR3-1866 ECC Reg, the liquid cooler, and a fast drive. 

 

On the subject of RAM, when using VRay in a z420 /E5-1660 v2 / 32GB system,  I had multiple faiilures of 3180 X 2160 renderings as the setup required 37+GB of RAM but and have  had no problems with 64GB.

 

Whichever processor is chosen, given that it will be running for many hours continuously under 100% load, consider the special z420 all in one liquid cooler:

 

Image result for z420 all in one liquid cooler:

One of these in a z620 and allows an E5-1680 v2 to run on all 8-cores at 4.3GHz.

 

Drives are important as well. The OS drive in the z620 is an HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI and a Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 500GB was recently added (NVMe can be used without BIOS modification as a data drive) - and that pair makes files really fly.

 

All things considered, the E5-2667 v2 seems a good choice for the CPU.


BambiBoomZ

 

z620_2: Xeon E5-1680 v2 8C@4.3GHz / z420 liquid cooling / 64GB DDR3-1866 ECC Reg / Quadro P2000 + GTX 1070 Ti / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI + Samsung 970 EVO NVme M.2 500GB + HGST 7K6000 4TB > HP OEM Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

 
HP Recommended

My guess it that the OP knows there are two versions of the Z420 and that these advanced "V2" processors will only work in the version 2 motherboards.  You can easily check the motherboard's boot block date in BIOS to tell if you have the version 1 or the version 2 motherboard.  The input from Bambi is very valuable... he clearly has much knowledge to share.

 

The W version of these Xeon processors often were "binned" chips that Intel sifted through to find which could withstand higher wattages and run faster than the others in the bucket.  Overclockers that owned a computer shop would do the same thing on a smaller scale.  There are differences in the fab of some of these processors that makes them special, somehow, despite being the same otherwise... those can run hotter and faster and yet not crash when the others would.  Later a newer version running at the same or higher speed might be able to run stable even at a  lower wattage.  Instead of running at 150 or 130W the newer processors could run at a cooler 95W with the same or even better performance.  So, look at the big picture our friend Bambi presents and don't necessarily be locked to a W processor.

HP Recommended

Thanks so much for the detailed response.   This is exactly the advice I needed to more forward with my small render farm build.   Its CPU based for Arnold at the moment and maybe add GPU's later for Redshift down the road.

I found a really good deal on a Z420 with a 1650 v2, 32g of ram and the liquid cooling option you mentioned in post.  I have a feeling the ram included is not 1866, but keeping fingers crossed.  The unit should avire later this week.   My plan is to bump up the ram to 64gb and add either the 2680 v2 or 2690 v2.   

I also aquired another Z820 with 2X 2620's,16gb memory, and standard power supply.  I will know more when its delivered.  I'm thinking of adding the 2680 v2 or 2690 v2,  but based on HP spec sheet the 2690 v2 will require the 1125 watt power supply.  Might have to settle for 2680 v2 and bump up memory to 64gb.

 

I'm currently running a Z820 with 2X 2687 v2,  64gb 1866 memory, 2X G2 Z Turbo drives, SSD's and 2X liquid cooling assemblies.  One of the liquid cooling assemblies stopped working last week.  I had to trouble shoot and pull 1x processor from system.  Seems the liquid cooling option is on backorder untill Dec 31st!  There are some crazy high prices for used Liquid Cooling Assemblies right now.  I could buy a few z420's for the cost of one of these so i'm waiting for Hp to fill order.

 

Thanks again for info!

 

HP Recommended

Exactly,  I'm excited to see there is more options than on the spec sheet.  Thanks for info!

HP Recommended

Chance.... a little added tip.  I don't use any of the Z800/Z820/Z840 systems so this relates to my experience with the Z420/Z620 workstations.  It might also work with the Z820 but I think the way the fans and heatsinks on those are mounted would prohibit this.

 

It turns out that the Z440/Z640 heatsinks are almost twice the surface area as those for the Z420/Z620.  The fans are the same size and yet have a different 6-pin rather than 5-pin plug end for the motherboard attachment.  The heatsink base is exactly the same dimensions between these two types despite the fact that the socket pinout is different between the ZX20 and ZX40 processors.  I have converted the 6-pin type plug/wiring to the 5-pin type, but there is an even easier way to get to the same point.... swapping the fans.

 

Thus, you can buy a used Z440 or Z640 heatsink/fan off eBay and swap in your current ZX20 fan for the ZX40 fan that came with your eBay buy and you'll now have a much more robust air-cooling system that fits perfectly.  I posted about that in here before but it does not have its own post.... search for that if you're interested because it has added info and pics.

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