Upgrading NVMe (Z Turbo) SSD on my HP Z440 Workstation.

[Paul8888f]

Hi all,

The current SSD in the Z440 is the factory-original 256GB, Samsung SM951 NVMe, and I'm looking to upgrade it to either the 512GB or 1TB variant.

Will the Samsung SSD 980 drive work as a boot drive in the Z Turbo PCIe adapter card?

Here are some more technical details on my current drive setup:

P/N:     MZVPV256HDGL-000H1
Model:     MZ-VPV2560
HP P/N:     801075-002

Standard:     NVM Express 1.1

HP Z Turbo Drive (G2)
PCIe 3.0 x 4

MSIP-REM-SEC-MZ-HPV2560  (not sure what this number means !)

It would be great if I could find an NMVe that's a qualified part (on the AML list), if not, something compatible & reliable would do.
Any advice welcome....

Thanks, Paul.

[SDH]

Paul,

You may want to delete the duplicate post on this issue, posted same day. You can edit out the text and replace it with "ignore this post". 

The answer is that yes you can improve your Z440 M.2 drive situation. The Z440 motherboard as you know does not have a dedicated M.2 socket. Rather, you need to use a PCIe card, and my opinion is that the best ones are from HP. If you want to run only one M.2 SSD then the Z Turbo Drive G2 is the one to get. It has that nice big aluminum heatsink and only uses 1 slot width. If you want to go a bit more complex you can get a Z Turbo Drive Dual Pro. There now are 2 versions of that too, both of which are single slot width. There is the original plus a higher-cooling-rated one built for the newer NVMe4 and later generation workstations. The original is what I'd recommend for best price/performance. It has a nice heavy duty heatsink, can run 1 or 2 M.2 drives, and is significantly less expensive. HP has been clearing those out via eBay sellers brand new for as low as about 25.00. Search for them via their part numbers to find the best deals.

I've posted details in this forum on those dual cards, worth finding. You plug that card into the PCIe3 x8 electrical slot and turn on bifurcation for that slot via BIOS. M.2 drives, by convention, only use 4 true electrical lanes so with up-to-date BIOS your x8 slot can bifurcate into two x4 pathways via that card. It is very fast to have your M.2 boot/applications drive in the "primary" upper socket and a big M.2 data drive adjacent in the lower "secondary" slot. You also can run that card with only 1 M.2 stick in place initially if you wish. In some of our builds we've switched over to only a ZTD DP card with two M.2 sticks and zero other drives.

M.2 Drives: You don't need to use HP M.2 sticks, but they are excellent too. I like the Samsung NVMe4 M.2 Pro sticks... 980Pro, 990Pro. You get the excellent no cost Samsung Magician utility that way. Yes, the Z440 is a NVMe3-slot-only workstation but quality NVMe4 M.2 sticks will run great in those via the HP ZTD DP card or the ZTD G1 and G2 cards. The NVMe4 sticks run measurably faster than a NVMe3 M.2 stick. It is not just the NVMe version that makes them faster...

A finely tuned Z440 can hold its own at lower cost against a Z4 G4 until you get into the more recent faster Z4 G4 processors available (at a significant upcharge).

[Paul8888f]

Hi SDH,

thanks for the reply. I will delete the duplicate post.

The Z Turbo Drive G2 was part of the original build in my machine, so I'm good to go in that department.

As a replacement, I'm considering a Samsung SSD 980 NVMe M.2, 1TB. For €150, hopefully, it should be a nice upgrade, and the specs are as follows:

Size:  2280

Storage:  V-NAND 3-bit MLC

Performance:  Seq. Read/Write = 3,500/3,000 MB/s

NVMe version:  1.4

PCIe Version:  3.0

TBW:  600

Warranty: 5 years

Do you know if I can re-use the thermal pads from the old SSD?

I'm not sure what you meant by "Z4 G4 processors available". Do these processors work in the older Z440?

Thanks again!

[SDH · Accepted solution]

NVMe3 techNVMe4 tech

That should have read: "A finely tuned Z440 can hold its own at lower cost against a Z4 G4 until you get into the more recent faster Z4 G4 processors available now for the Z4 G4 workstations (at a significant upcharge)."

Note also that a forum friend, NonSequitur777, did discover that some Core processors can run in the Z440, and his excellent work is well worth looking up here. He also just posted here about a related breakthrough for the Z4 G4 workstations.

Regarding your M.2 stick questions. The Samsung 980 is significantly different from the 980Pro. I have the Pro version and am very happy with that. It is a NVMe4 stick and the other is a NMVe3 stick. The Pro is better for us in our Z440 and Z4 G4 workstations at work when compared to the lower end Samsung 980. Both the Z440 and the Z4 G4 only have NVMe3 as their fastest PCIe technology but both clearly show faster performance when a NVMe4 M.2 stick is used. As I said, the faster speed is due to something more than just the type of PCIe slot it is in. Added improvements are also in the controller and other bits inside. More mouse juice...

[Paul8888f]

Good to know about the CPU options for the Z440 from NonSequitur777. I will do a search for these posts when I've more time.

I see what you mean by the advantages of using an NVMe4 M.2 on a Motherboard that only supports PCIe 3.0. A more efficient controller IC etc. can boost throughput speeds a little, and in my case, when working with large YouTube files for editing, this advantage can add up.

Also, when you think about it, using a slightly over-rated NVMe probably has thermal advantages too: - The newer technology should "break less of a sweat", doing the same work, and this might be noticeable during sustained random-write operations??? - Just a guess..!

Regardless, the 980 Pro version seems like a sound investment, and can always be transferred into future Workstation purchases. (Going up one level, would the 990 Pro be totally overkill? - I see the Samsung MZ-V9P1T0BW on the Reichelt website for €114, which seems reasonable to me, and looks to be compatible with the Z Turbo (G2) card of the Z440.

Just one more thing I need to know; what thickness Thermal Pad do you think I should use? When I first bought my Z440, I found an air-gap, and want to avoid this again:

I see Amazon selling a VooGenzek pack of assorted thicknesses (0.5, 1, and 1.5 mm). And the LTT Store sell a "Phase Change Thermal Pad", but this looks to just be for CPUs that are over-clocked. It turns to a type of liquid when warmed up. Think I'll avoid this; don't want to release the magic smoke.

[SDH]

Paul,

I forgot to address one question before on how to clean the pads. You can gently peel off the upper and lower thermal pads HP uses in the ZTD G1 and G2... they are the same between generations but as you know thinner on the top than the bottom one. You can buy a thicker pad for the upper one if you have an air gap... those are standard sizes or you can cut a bigger one down to the same size. I think the bottom one is 3mm and the top 2.5mm. In my mind it is the upper one that is most important to transfer heat from the controller/memory chips up to the heatsink. The thicker lower one is more for support to help press the M.2 sticks up against the upper pad. Many of the current 1TB ones are "single sided" with a blank PCB undersurface. I've never hit thermal throttling using the ZTD G2.

A new M.2 stick might be a bit thicker and that would take care of your air gap towards the rear of the card. If not, you could go up to a quality slightly thicker top pad... about 0.5 mm thicker than the top original. I'd try a 3mm quality one on top if needed and keep the original bottom pad. There are many high performance pads out there you could choose from... that is a rabbit hole I don't want to go down.

Regarding cleaning the pads... they are somewhat delicate. Once you peel them off you can wash them in the sink with dish washing soap using that and warm running water, rubbing gently with your fingers. Dry by pressing, not rubbing, with a clean cloth and let air dry after that. They can tear if you are not quite gentle. They will stick back on as they came new easily after cleaning.

Two good sites for reviews of SSDs are https://www.anandtech.com/ and https://www.thessdreview.com/

Yes, some M.2 sticks run cooler than others. There are multiple excellent gen 4 ones out there that are easy to find. I like that Samsung Software utility which gives the Evo and Pro sticks some control of functions not available for the Samsung OEM sticks. Plus, firmware updates are very easy via that utility. Anandtech sadly has ceased new output about a month ago, but the site is still available, and their "best of" summary reviews of SSDs have been excellent.

EDIT: Good choice on the Samsung 990 Pro... the second site has a great review on that one.

[Paul8888f]

Thinner Pad on top makes sense for better heat dissipation.

 I'll check out those 2 sites for SSD reviews, but I'm fairly sure I'll for for the 1TB, 990 Pro model.
Good to know about the upgradable firmware through the Magician utility too.

Thanks for all your help, much appreciated.

[jerrytechuser]

The Samsung SSD 980 will not work as a boot drive in the Z440 using the Z Turbo Drive G2 PCIe adapter. The Z Turbo Drive G2 supports NVMe 1.1, while the Samsung SSD 980 uses NVMe 1.3, which is incompatible.

To upgrade, look for SSDs explicitly compatible with the Z Turbo Drive G2, such as another Samsung SM951 or compatible drives from the HP Approved Manufacturer List (AML). Ensure the drive supports NVMe 1.1 and PCIe 3.0 x4.

[SDH]

Wrong Jerry,

First, my recommendation was about the Samsung 980 Pro, not the Samsung 980. Take a look at the obvious differences between those two in the two pictures I posted about above.

Second, I've been running the Samsung 980 Pro as a boot drive in the HP Z Turbo Drive first generation and the Z Turbo Drive G2, plus in the Z Turbo Drive Dual Pro (both generations of that) in multiple Z440 workstations for several years now. Plus, I've tested those multiple different Z Turbo Drives with other non-HP quality NVMe PCIe3 and PCIe4 M.2 drives... with zero issues. 

You are flat out incorrect.

[Paul8888f]

I've bought the 990 Pro (not the 980). I've yet to fit it yet, as I must first sort out back-ups etc.

If I do encounter any backwards compatibility issues, are there BIOS/UEFI settings I can change?