Upgrading graphics card on Z800

[Tyran-nosaurus_]

Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum, but I've already gotten some very useful info from it.

I have an HP Z800 from 2009. I am about to tear it apart for an upgrade, which will include Win 7, two new processors, more memory, and a new graphics card.

According to PartSurfer and QuickSpecs, the machine can run an Nvidia Quadro (FX) 4000  2GB. I'm a mechanical engineer who models assemblies in SolidWorks. I do 3D renderings and animation of the stuff I design in Blender and Keyshot. So I bought a new Dell Nvidia Quadro 4000 PCIe 2.0x16 2 GB GDDR5 card.

For reference the CT label on the motherboard is SP# 461437-001 / AS# 460838-001: it can only run the Nehalem Intel 55xx processors, which I will be upgrading.

My question: Are there gonna be any be any incompatibility problems with a new board in an old box?

Thanks in advance,

Walter

[SDH]

Double post.....

[SDH]

Sounds like you know you have the version 1 of the Z800, with the earlier boot block date?  Confirm that, of course, because it makes a difference in what you can do with that workstation.  However, that video card should be fine in both the earlier and later versions.  There are several firmware versions of the card.

Update the motherboard's BIOS to the latest as your first step before doing anything else.  You can read up in here on updating BIOS from within BIOS.   I have run the Quadro 2000 and 2000D on that workstation, and the  Quadro K2000 and K2000D on it also.  So, your Quadro 4000 should run fine.  When I do a new Quadro install I uninstall the old drivers from the Control Panel.  Then, without restarting I uninstall any nVidia software from the 3 programs folders on root C including the normally hidden Program Data folder.  Then install the latest nVidia Quadro drivers for your OS.... I use the custom install option and check the clean install box there.

Look on your Quadro card's back face for the card's vBIOS version (and you also can see that from the nVidia control panel) and also from some utilities such as GPUz.  There may be a HP vBIOS firmware upgrade for the card, depending on the version you have.  The html ReadMe is:

ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp57001-57500/sp57155.html

The .exe for the HP SoftPaq is:

ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp57001-57500/sp57155.exe

I have never damaged a HP or non-HP card with these HP video card updates..... if the vBIOS on your card is newer than that on the SoftPaq then it just won't do anything..... and these HP firmware updaters work on both HP and non-HP cards.

[DGroves]

why would you even as this question? the case/power supply have no bearing on any compatability issues!

the motherboard youplan replacing is the excact same one except for the bios chip code and a newer IO chip revision

no other changes were made

workstations and servers are speced and certified with applications when the model comes out 

any/every change requires a full recertify by HP  on software that claims compatability with the z800

for this reasion you will find that almost no parts will change during the lifetime the system is sold/under warranty

with the above said, hp's offical stance on cpu upgrades is adding one more of the same cpu is covered by hp

changing both cpu's is/was not offically warrantied by HP on their workstations/servers

but 99% of the time a system will have no problems with a diffrent cpu as long as it is in the list of offically offered HP cpu's

last gotcha,....using high wattage (130/150 watt) cpu's you will require the optional 1150 watt power supply

which has 2 6pin gpu pwr (the std 750 watt supply has only one 6pin gpu) and high performance heatsinks  (the high perf ones have a 3rd heatpipe) standard heatsinks only have 2 heatpipes

[Tyran-nosaurus_]

SDH,

Thanks a lot for your reply! It's full of useful info. I'm feeling a lot more confident about this whole thing!

I will be getting back to you about some of the details.

One thing, please assume almost total ignorance on my part beyond updating the BIOS.  This is the first time I've done anything like this. But I am fearless and I learn by asking lots of dumb-sounding questions.

I checked the boot block date and it indicates that I can only use X 55xx processors. That's the next project: finding a pair of new Xeons that are certified for this machine. I'd like to get the fastest I can, since I can't go with the 6 cores in the 56xx. I mistakenly bought a 2.93 Ghz 6-core which I must return.

More later!

Walter

[DGroves]

please take the time to read/download the HP "quick spec" and "user service manual" for the z800

the link below shows the various config's hp offered (including cpu's)

http://www.hp.com/canada/products/landing/workstations/files/13278_na.pdf

again, high power cpu= upgraded pwr supply and upgraded heatsinks

if only using one cpu, and 2 drives and 6 sticks of ram and a 130 watt video card,

you might be able to use the 750 watt supply

i strongly recomend that the power supply be your first upgrade as all other upgrades will require it

these upgraded units are getting scarce due to the supply running out on spare parts so you might want

to get one as soon as possible

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-508148-001-468929-004-850W-Power-Supply-For-HP-Z800-Workstation-Ser...

[DGroves · Accepted solution]

please take the time to read/download the HP "quick spec" and "user service manual" for the z800

the link below shows the various config's hp offered (including cpu's)

http://www.hp.com/canada/products/landing/workstations/files/13278_na.pdf

again, high power cpu= upgraded pwr supply and upgraded heatsinks

if only using one cpu, and 2 drives and 6 sticks of ram and a 130 watt video card,

you might be able to use the 750 watt supply

i strongly recomend that the power supply be your first upgrade as all other upgrades will require it

these upgraded units are getting scarce due to the supply running out on spare parts so you might want

to get one as soon as possible

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-z820-1125W-POWER-SUPPLY-623196-001-DPS-1125AB-A-632914-001/253285626577?...

[Tyran-nosaurus_]

DGroves,

Thanks for the reply! When I originally talked to HP workstation support, they sent me QuickSpecs for the Z800, version 56. It was wierd that it only showed X5600 processors. Then I went to PartSurfer, which seemed more realistic, with a list of supported X5500 processors.

Your link to QuickSpecs v.2 is a lot more useful.

Good idea about the power supply.

I will get back to you with a possible setup for the upgrade. I just found 2 new X 5580s on eBay . . . TDP 130W; they would require the high performance heat sink, which are pretty pricey on eBay. The 1125 W power supply would be needed. My wife is gonna kill me!

Walter

[DGroves]

it is possible to adapt other heatsinks if you have basic modding skills on wood or metal

this one might work as is note that this is the z400 high perf one 3 heatpipes/copper base

the std one is 2 pipes and no copper base (just like the z800 line of heat sinks)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-463981-001-Z400-Workstation-5-Pin-LGA-1366-Socket-B-CPU-Fan-w-Heatsink/3...

my z800 has the same cpu's as you listed and the system is still as fast as much newer systems 

and the 8 cores work well in video editing/rendering, although my z820 12 core is now my main system

for the z800 you can for a small cash outlay (compared to buying a z820) make your z800 have almost the same specs

once you upgrade the cpu/ram and power supply you might want to do the following things

1. upgrade the Boot drive to a Fast SSD.

there are several ways to do this, the cheapest way is to look for a PCI-e x2 SATA 6GBps card (PEX40062)

this card uses two pci-e links instead of one link, as such iw can and will give full sata # speeds when using a SSD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/IO-Crest-SI-PEX40062-4-Port-SATA-III-PCI-Express-2-0-x2-Controller-Card-New...

a much better method is to buy a Dell H310 SAS/SATA card, it uses the same LSI chip as the hp z820

change the h310 heatsink for a larger one and then buy the two 

SAS 4i SFF-8087 36P 36-Pin Male to 4 SATA 7-Pin cables

and last buy 5 SATA  adapters off ebay this way you can connect the 4 internal drive bays to the dell card's SATA III 6GBps ports  instead of the motherboards SATA II ports

https://www.ebay.com/itm/7pin-SATA-3-0-male-to-male-port-adapter-Staight-Angle-SATA-6Gbps-Convertor-...

the otherSFF cable would go to a SAS based SSD (or a SATA AHCI SSD)

the dell h310 card in a z800 gives you the exact same speeds/feature set as the z820 has

(you can also use a more expensive card, but make sure it can do true JBOD) some cards can only do raid or raid JBOD

last, i would look on ebay for a highpoint  four port USB 3.0 card, it gives you four 3.0 ports that all run at full speed

there is no sharing the buss like cheaper cards do. you can find them on ebay sometimes for 50/70.00

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HighPoint-RocketU-RU1144CM-4-Port-USB-3-0-5Gbps-PCIe-x4-Raid-HBA-Adapter-Ca...

[SDH]

Walter... happy to help with your earlier "version 1" Z800 with its earlier boot block date of 1/30/09.  I wish they all were the later version 2 with the boot block date of 11/10/09, but that is still an excellent workstation that can be easily upgraded.  You're getting good advice from DGroves, so I'll only add in a few things of interest.

1.  All the ZX00 workstations are SATA generation II type, and the PCIe bus slots that are PCIe generation 2 are faster than that.  There is logic to getting a PCIe card that interfaces with the PCIe bus in a PCIe generation 2 slot and thereby gives you SATA generation III speeds.  An alternative that I have gone with is a step above that..... using the Kingston Predator M.2 PCIe card that I've posted about here.  I use that as my boot/applications drive, and use a 500GB SATA generation II SSD as my documents drive in one of the SATA drive bays.  If I needed more documents storage I'd switch over to HDD, but this way is faster.  For the Z800 the PCIe generation 2 slots are 1, 2, 4, 5.  The PCIe generation 1 slots are 3 and 7.  You have one legacy PCI slot, 6.  You can use the lower "video" PCIe2 x16 slot for fast access to the PCIe bus if you wish.  I'd put a 500GB Kingston Predator M.2 card in slot 1 if you choose to go that route.  Read my post on how to do that if you do..... it requires a special storage controller driver.  There is some confusion in the Z800 literature about whether slot 7 is PCIe gen 1 or 2.  I'd avoid using that one for fast PCIe bus access as a result.

2.  HP went with a Texas Instruments chipset for their on-motherboard USB3 solution for the ZX20 generation..... Z620/Z820 is what I'm most experienced with.  For the ZX00 workstation owners HP released a USB3 "2x2" PCIe card that has two ports on backplane and a "USB3 motherboard header" on the card that lets you feed two more USB3 ports up front.  I've posted here on what to buy and exactly how to install that, and the drivers are available from the HP ZX20 drivers sites.  Recently I've learned that the front interface cable for the Z620 fits perfectly in the Z600 and that the longer front interface cable for the Z820 is said to fit perfectly in the Z800.  Those cables have two blue USB3 ports and 1 black USB2 port out front.  So, when I have a bit of spare time I'm going to transplant my eBay 14.00 Z620 cable into a spare Z600 I have here, and then plug the single plug rear end of the 2 front USB3 cables into the card's header.  It is a perfect match and if you have a nice USB3 thumb drive the speeds are great via that HP card.

3.  QuickSpecs..... if you dig enough you'll find that HP has the whole series of Quickspecs for your Z800 from v1 to v56 available.  About 1/4 in you'll see the supported processors suddenly include the processors for both the version 1 and the version 2 of the Z800.  Same thing for the Z600 and Z400.  Later the version 2 processors take over.  I only have about 5 for the Z800, but for the Z600 I have many more.  The transition was June 2010 when they started having both, and the changeover from v1 to v2 is called in some HP documents the "May 2010 Update".  Here's a pic from that 6/10 transition QuickSpec for the Z600:

So, you need to go find the transition QuickSpecs around that same time for the Z800 to find the very last v1 processors that HP supported, and pick the best from that.  You want nothing slower than 1333MHz so you can use the fastest memory.  You want the highest GT/s possible for your box (6.4).  With dual processors I'll often favor faster quad core over slower hexacore... for a Z600 v1 I'd be looking closely at the X5570.  Your Z800 will likely have some added options.

The dual processor workstations generally used more expensive processors because each processor needed to run cooler (with two inside).  In contrast, with the single processor workstations such as the Z400 Z420 HP could put in a less expensive hotter running single processor and throw voltage at it and not need to worry about cooling so much.  So, don't feel that getting a 130 Watt processor is necessary.  Plus the heatsinks/fans for those are hard to get if you go official HP, and expensive if you can find them.  If you end up going with 130 Watt processors buy one Z400 heatsink/fan off eBay to see if they will fit.

Processors:  if there are two sSpec codes get the latest one.  Look that up on the Intel Ark site.  For example that X5570 is a quad core, with 95W max TDP, and has a single sSpec code of SLBF3.  It cost $1386.00 USD each on introduction and that same sSpec code today on eBay will cost you $9.95 for a pair of them.  You will, however, need to pay $2.95 shipping.....

Memory..... you'll only be able to run ECC unbuffered, but that is just fine.  The v2 Z600/v2 Z800 can also run ECC buffered.  Fill all your slots with the exact same memory and you'll do well.  Figure out how much you really need.  The concept is that it better overall to fill fully with 2GB sticks than partially with 4GB sticks and leaving some slots empty.  You won't get 3 channel memory performance if you leave slots empty, and this is a bigger deal than many of us realize.  Let me know if you need the HP memory part numbers for ECC UB 1333MHz memory.

Best,  Scott