Which Model is more capable and why? Elite 8300-CMT vs Elite 8380-CMT?

[Mike-Lynch]

I never knew 8380's were i existence.

Perhaps one might solve several of my concerns with my 8300's.

I'd appreciate as much personal feedback on the 8380's that I can get.

[NonSequitur777]

@Mike-Lynch,

The primary difference between the HP Compaq Elite 8380 and the HP Compaq Elite 8300 Convertible Minitower lies in their generation. The 8300 was released in 2012 and uses Intel 3rd generation processors, whilst the 8380 is a later model, though specifics about the 8380 are rather scarce. The 8300 is known for its use of Intel Core 3rd generation Core i3, i5, and i7 processors and support for up to 32GB of RAM. 

Here's a more detailed breakdown: 

• HP Compaq Elite 8300:

  • Released in 2012.
  • Uses Intel Core 3rd generation Core processors (e.g., i5-3470, i7-3770).
  • Supports up to 32GB of DDR3 RAM.
  • Offered in various configurations, including Small Form Factor (SFF) and Convertible Minitower (CMT).
• HP Compaq Elite 8380:

  • A later model, but specific details are limited.
  • It is likely just an evolutionary step up from the 8300, potentially offering improvements in processor technology, chipset, or other features.
  • It is also likely to use only Intel 3rd generations, but the specific models may differ from the 8300.
  • It is reasonable to expect support for similar amounts of RAM as the 8300.

In essence, the 8380 is likely a later version of the 8300, but specific details beyond the model number are difficult to find.

For example, there aren't many HP Compaq Elite 8380 CMTs in circulation.

Case in point: Userbenchmark only shows two (2) benchmarks for the HP Compaq Elite 8380 CMT, whereas the HP Compaq Elite 8300 CMT shows more than 2,960 benchmarks.

Warm Regards,

NonSequitur777

[Mike-Lynch]

I have tried searching for any 8380"s for sale.

It doesn't appear that there are any in existence.

I even tried to buy a motherboard for one with no luck.

Are they or were they "ever" sold in the US.

[SDH]

Mike,

EDIT: Clarified motherboard details on the E8300 CMT vs E8300 MT vs E8300 SFF. It is the E8300 MT and the E8300 SFF that use the identical motherboards. The E8300 CMT also uses the same BIOS and has two added PCI (not PCIe) sockets. The methods below will be identical for the slightly larger E8300 CMT motherboards.

I think you know your answer and are ready to move on. I too searched for the Elite 8380 also without success, and I'm a pretty good searcher. So, let's take another approach. You indicate you have several E8300 CMT business class computers that you'd like to improve on. It is my understanding that the motherboard used in the E8300 CMT is nearly identical to that used in the E8300 SFF and that the motherboard in the smaller E8300 MT is identical to that used in the E8300 SFF. I checked... those two use motherboards with the same HP part numbers. These all use the same BIOS versions. I have been working recently on a project upgrading the E8300 SFF so my related posts and findings will be directly applicable to your E8300 CMTs:

1. You'll want to upgrade to the latest BIOS ever released by HP... that has very significant benefits. It is the 3.08 version. As has been the case with some prior HP workstations and business class computers you need to do a "step up" method to get to 3.08. If your BIOS currently is lower than version 2.99 you first need to update to 2.99, and then you can update to 3.08. That latest version optimized the UEFI capabilities of the E8300 (and P6300) computers... used for all form factors in both series.

2. I have been posting on use of special OPROM-supplemented NVMe drives that contribute missing boot code to the native HP BIOS UEFI code and these combine to allow the Z420/Z620/V820 workstations (both the v1 and v2 versions) to boot from those particular NVMe drives. Turns out that exact same method works with the E8300 (and P6300) business class computers. There is a single BIOS switch that needs to be enabled for the on-drive OPROM code to become available during boot... and that is easy to find and enable.

3. You want to upgrade to the best (or second best) gen3 processor HP ever certified for those computers... the Core i7-3770 (or Core i5-3570). Only use the exact ones HP specifies. I only use the i7 one personally, but the i5 version is even less expensive recycled on eBay. The reason: E8300 motherboard engineering has the processor controlling the long dark PCIe slot. The chipset (Intel Q77 Express), instead, controls the long white PCI slot. That soldered-on chipset can only provide PCIe generation 2 bandwidth to the long white slot. In contrast, those two best processors (Intel Ivy Bridge type) finally provide PCIe generation 3 bandwidth to the long dark PCIe slot. Magically you can change to one of those two best processors and end up with a PCIe3 slot available into which you insert the special OPROM-supplemented NVMe drive. Of interest, only the i7-3770 provides hyperthreading. Earlier processors only provided PCIe2 bandwidth to that long dark PCIe slot. These special NVMe drives only need x4 electrical lanes for full performance, so only the first 4 out of the 16 lanes of the dark long PCIe slot will be used, but the drive will now be running at its full PCIe3 performance. This is a huge increase over a SATA drive and about a doubling of the PCIe2 speed if you were using any of the earlier processors.

4. Your E8300 CMT certainly has a higher rated power supply than what is in the three E8300 SFFs I've been experimenting with (320W vs 240W). I have 1 out of the 3 E8300 SFF that can run the Intel DC P3700 800GB add-in-card (AIC) drive simultaneously with a nvidia K620 video card in the long white PCIe slot. However, all 3 can run that P3700 NVMe drive if I simply run the monitor off the built-in DisplayPort port. All 3 also can run the K620 video card if I instead use a Samsung 950 Pro M.2 stick as its NVMe drive. The M.2 sticks draw less power than the P3700. The E8300 SFFs in which the Intel AIC drive can't work in along with the video card give an error signal indicating the power supply is insufficient. I checked... those have very early power supply versions. The E8300 MT and E8300 CMT both use the same higher rated power supply.

5. I've posted on how I update firmware and prepare the Intel and Samsung special drives for use. I also post on exactly how I use Rufus 4.9 plus a short video Paul Tikkanen found to create a bootable W11 24H2 installer thumb drive to do clean or in-place upgrades. GPT partitioning and setting BIOS initially to Factory Defaults is key. Same exact techniques work in a ZX20 workstation if you chose to go that route, but I'd recommend getting a ZX40 instead if you chose to change hardware that much.

6. I have been amazed at how well and fast these upgraded E8300 computers now work under W11Pro6424H2. The video card can easily drive 2 monitors. Your CMT version will get the same benefits. I use a 1/2 height nvidia K620 video card in the long white PCIe slot. I'd consider using a full height K2200 video card in your E8300 CMT instead (the K620 would be excellent also). Both those cards can use the quick easy nvidia DisplayPort firmware updater v1.1 which you can easily find. From eBay both cards are quite reasonable and are still getting W11 driver updates from nvidia. If you choose to proceed, contact me later for optimized BIOS settings for the E8300 series via HP "replicated setup".

7. Finally... you have good NVMe boot drive info now. I'd also use a good quality 2.5" form factor SATAIII SSD for your documents drive. That is a very fast combination.

[Mike-Lynch]

@SDH

Thank you for the extensive research and detailed answer to my Post.

Please note that I am a Novice and pressed for time, thus the interest in the 8380.

I have two 8300-CMT's, each slightly different from one another.

Each is running W10-Pro64 with all current Updates.

I decided to use one of them for a Photo Project documenting Family Photos.

Because of the number of potential Photos involved, scattered over at least 100 Media devices, I chose the CMT.

8300-CMT #1 has the most current Bios for 8300's I am aware of: 03.08.

8300-CMT #2 has 8300 Bios 03.07.

Each has had their Processors upgraded to 7770-K's

Each has 16MB's of memory installed.

8300-CMT #1 has a device installed which allows / allowed me to insert HDD's and SSD's easily in a hot swap fashion.

This included: 3.5", 2.5" HDD's and 2.5" SSDs plus Media Thumb Drives and Cards of all varieties.

This device no longer functions and while very handy, I do not have time to trouble shoot its failure.

I also had a SCSI type device installed in it that provided four separate attachment points for external SCSI devices.

It worked well and required its own external power source so the 8300 PS would not be overwhelmed.

In the past few weeks, I began to experience difficulty attaching Drives to the extra SATA ports on the Motherboard.

I may have damaged the Motherboard attaching and un-attaching Drives to it vs using the device mentioned above.

I decided to abandon using 8300-CMT #1 and defaulted to 8300-CMT #2.

Recall it has Bios 03.07 installed.

For whatever reason the SCSI device I moved to 8300-CMT #2 no longer works, a major setback.

The loss of the read / write speed it provided has almost crippled my Photo Project.

USB works but requires hours to process drives, looking for photos and eliminating duplicates.

I'm tempted but afraid to upgrade 8300-CMT #2's BIOS to 03.08 as there is no way back if the BIOS isn't the problem.

Regarding the 8380-CMT, I was hoping for a "more" capable 8300 type System that could buy me out of this dilemma.

The time I'm pressed for, I'm 81 years old and I forget more each passing day.

My Expiration Date is also most likely quickly approaching.

Again, thanks for the Research, I'll try and absorb and use it but if you do not continue to see me Post, Adios! 

Best regards,

Mike Lynch

[SDH]

Mike,

It was a pleasure helping you. You are right... time overlooks no man.

When you say "SCSI device" I assume you mean "eSATA device" plugged into a rear eSATA port if you have the correct adapter in place. In BIOS the eSATA port can be set to a slower (1.5) or faster (3.0) speed. Sometimes eSATA will work best if you shift to the slower 1.5 speed. eSATA is somewhat delicate and the quality and length of the cable can make a significant difference. There is a special motherboard attachment for the internal eSATA cable attachment end, and the other end has a rear backplane attachment for a spare spot there. See page 23-24, #22, for the correct motherboard port in the manual attached below. The page numbers I refer to are shown the bottom corner of the page you're viewing.

You can buy the high quality HP eSATA backplane device from HP on eBay by searching for 483942-001, or use this link HERE . Cost including shipping would be about 10.00 USD... but you may already have one of those installed. Make sure it is plugged in inside to the correct SATA port, shown above. Here is what that looks like:

For eSATA work... USB3 is as fast

Don't forget that you have 4 excellent rear USB3 ports also available... those run virtually the same speed as eSATA and many external high quality and fast USB3 devices can be purchased into which you can plug 3.5" or 2.5" hard drives/SD cards/etc. I can recommend some. USB3 is a different technology that is robust and would give you a successful fast interface into your second CMT. Those rear USB3 ports have blue internal plastic orientation tab while the 5 times slower USB2 ones have a black plastic tab inside, easy to see. See page 7, #6 of the manual.

Good luck on your project!

[Mike-Lynch]

This is what I referred to as SCSI, perhaps I mis-stated what it actually is.

RocketU 1444C PCIe 3.0 x16 USB 3.2 20Gb/s Host Controller

SKU:

SKU RU1444C

RU1444C

HighPoint RocketU 1400 Series PCIe controllers are the industry's fastest USB Host Adapters. Each USB device port is fully independent and powered by a dedicated 20Gb/s USB 3.2 controller chip, backed by a robust PCIe 3.0 host interface.

Key features:

• Available with 4x Dedicated USB Type-C 3.2 20Gb/s Ports
• Dedicated PCIe 3.0 x16 Host Interface
• True Alternative to Thunderbolt™ 3 Connectivity
• Ideal for professional-grade, High-Speed Data Acquisition & Transfer Applications
• Universal Type-C connectivity support any industry-standard USB device or peripheral
• Dedicated 20Gb/s transfer bandwidth per USB port
• Driverless Installation: Native xHCI Support

[SDH]

That is a good company but the product is quite advanced for your E8300 CMT. The issue might be the older BIOS, but you're only one version back from the latest. Your CMT will only have PCIe2 bandwidth unless you have one of the two advanced processors installed. Only the longer dark PCIe slot will become PCIe3 bandwidth, and only that one has 16 true electrical lanes. If you have that card in the longer white PCIe slot I'd switch it over to the longer dark slot.

I, personally, think that card might be too much. Have you tried any of your USB3 ports instead? Plugable.com is a source I have bought from and take a look at their USB3 to SATA drive dock. That takes both 2.5 and 3.5 inch drives (HDDs and 2.5" SATA SSDs). I believe your USB3 ports would be better technology for you and that they would work. Take a look at Plugable USB 3.1 Gen 2 SATA Vertical Hard Drive Dock ~ Plugable Technologies and you can find those on Amazon. If you lived down the street you could borrow mine.

You would use the included USB-C to USB-A cable to go from the back of the dock to one of your USB3 blue tab ports on your computer's backplane. There are many good card readers also, which can output to your USB3 ports too but most of those little data cards function only at USB2 speeds regardless of what they're plugged into. My guess is that USB3 will be what works best for you, and it is backwards compatible with USB2.

[Mike-Lynch]

The "HighPoint RocketU 1400 Series PCIe controller" runs great in my PC.

My PC's BIOS is 3.07 and I am afraid to upgrade to 3.08 as there is no reversing / reverting to 3.07.

Mike