2666MHz memory kit runs at 2133MHz in Pavilion Gaming 690

[NicoleSharp100]

I have the HP 690-0010 with 1X 8 GB DDR4-2666 (PC4-21300).  I would like to upgrade the Sunflower motherboard to 2X 16 GB DDR4-2666 (PC4-21300).  Will that be supported?  HP Support has informed me it would be, but you say it will not be?

[erico]

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@NicoleSharp100 wrote:

I have the HP 690-0010 with 1X 8 GB DDR4-2666 (PC4-21300).  I would like to upgrade the Sunflower motherboard to 2X 16 GB DDR4-2666 (PC4-21300).  Will that be supported?  HP Support has informed me it would be, but you say it will not be?

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I did not say that it would not work.

It will work, but the memory will downclock to the motherboard's default memory module bandwidth PC4-19200 specification

I moved your question to its own unique thread. 

Piggybacking on someone else's thread is not the best way to ask a question. You should have authored your own thread.

[NicoleSharp100]

I have a PC4-21300 RAM card provided by HP in the machine now.  If what you say is true, is there a way to check the RAM to see whether it is running at PC4-21300 or PC4-19200?

[erico]

What I have said is factual and derived from Hp documents on the Sunflower motherboard. see the link below.

https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-pavilion-gaming-690-0000-pc-series/19769765/model/21447498/d...

You can download CPU-z and run it if that will make you feel better or simply accept the motherboard document as the way it is.

[bsadler_pw]

It's...complicated. It actually depends on the memory you purchase, and how that memory is configured by its manufacturer. RAM these days can have two 'profiles' configured: one uses safe settings that conform to the DDR4 specifications, and the other is a performance specification that uses faster but non-standard settings. Both of these profiles are programmed onto a small chip on each RAM stick by the manufacturer. The 690-0010 will only use whatever settings are programmed into the 'safe' profile.

This is where the problem comes in: There is a standard set of safe timings for 2666MHz DDR4 memory that are allowed to be used in the 'safe' profile. However, there are also non-standard 2666MHz timings that would only be put in the 'performance' profile, and if they were, the 'safe' profile is probably going to specify 2133MHz! So, just saying 2666MHz isn't enough to guess if it is going to be the safe version or the performance version. To make things even more difficult, pretty much no RAM manufacturer lists what timings they have used in the two different profiles. They just list a single speed, and don't tell you if you have to be able to use 'performance' memory profiles to actually get that speed.

One thing that can help, but still isn't a guarantee, is the CL rating of the memory. The 'safe' spec for 2666MHz specifies CL19, so if you find 2666MHz DDR4 memory with CL19, then it is possible that it will be recognized and run at that speed. If it is anything lower than CL19, then it almost certainly is a 'performance' profile and will end up running at 2133MHz in the 690. This isn't foolproof, but looking for 2666MHz and CL19 is your best bet at getting something that will actually run at the advertized speed. You could also try bugging HP enough that they stop disabling the BIOS option that prevents you from simply activating the 'performance' profile on any RAM, but I doubt they will do it. Serisouly, the motherboard and the BIOS both support using the 'performance' profile on RAM. The only reason you can't use it is that HP has choosen to lock the option that would let you pick the RAM profile and not let end-users touch it. I have no idea why, but that was what they decided.

My solution was to use a specialized piece of software to re-program the profiles on the RAM I had purchased so I could trick the motherboard into running whatever I wanted, but that is NOT something I would recommend. While it worked in my case, there is no guarantee it will work on all RAM, and there is a very real chance of ruining your RAM by doing what I did. Actually, in the end I got so fed up with the restrictions and non-standard eccentricities on my 690 that I threw everything but the CPU and video card in the trash and re-built a new system myself using off-the-shelf consumer parts plus what I salvaged from the 690! Of course, I understand that not everyone is comfortable building their own PC just to get around silly memory compatibility issues , but I like being in control of my own computer!

[NicoleSharp100]

I had already created a new thread regarding the RAM usage in my HP 690-0010, so there was no need to fork a new thread from this one:

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop-Hardware-and-Upgrade-Questions/maximum-RAM-for-690-0010-Sunflo...

Bsadler_PW, thank you for that explanation.  According to GSkill, it looks like the particular RAM linked in my earlier thread then would use CL20 by default, which I am assuming is a good thing?  If you know whether the GSkill 2X 16 GB PC4-21300 RAM linked in my thread above will work with the Sunflower motherboard, please let me know.  I would want to run everything at safe settings only, and would prefer a plug-and-play RAM solution that does not require customization or setup.

[bsadler_pw]

It is worth a shot, just keep your receipt in case it doesn't work! I own a few G.Skill kits, and every single one of them has 2133MHz in it's 'safe' profile. That worries me a little bit, but all of the ones I bought were advertized at speeds outside of the 'safe' zone, and none were from G.Skills Aegis product line. It's possible the Aegis line is set up differently. If it ends up not working, give the Crucial kit CT2K16G4DFD8266 a try. All of the non-gaming-branded Crucial memory kits I've used at work have had the advertized settings stored in the 'safe' profile so I'm pretty sure that one will work at 2666MHz in your 690.

[erico]

Both of you do not seem to realize that the memory bandwidth profiles at which installed memory runs is set by the BIOS.

You can purchase faster memory that is compatible but you will be wasting your money. 

DIY PC builds, such as the one I am typing this on, that have enthusiast motherboards give the owners the ability to set the primary and secondary timings of installed memory as well as the ability to modify the memory bus clock speed. This PC has the ASUS R.O.G. Crosshair Formula-Z motherboard which allows me the latitude to either automatically or manually overclock the memory frequency, memory busses. Those are just a few of the choices that I have.  If that is what you want to be able to do, then you should build your own system. That is what the majority of Experts here in the forum do.

Mainstream desktop PC and notebook products largely do not give owners that ability for a simple reason. That reason is the knowledge that the manufacturers do not know what prospective owners know about overclocking and the associated dangers that come with it. That is the reason that the advanced menu items are hidden or greyed out.  

You are talking about the XMP  and JEDEC profiles that can be used by the BIOS to allow memory to run at different frequencies than the default proprietary memory bandwidth profile coded by Hp Engineers into an HP desktop's BIOS file The XMP profiles exist, but in the case of an HP desktop PC BIOS, you cannot select them arbitrarily. I can do that with my ASUS Crosshair Formula-Z BIOS with I ease, should I choose to do so.

You are, unfortunately,  making references that are outside of what is permitted by HP's proprietary coded BIOS firmware.  HP's proprietary BIOS does not allow what you are suggesting to have a possibility of happening.

[bsadler_pw]

I'm pretty sure we are just talking past each other. You just said basically the same thing I did in a different way! Lots of RAM sticks use a 2133MHz profile for the standard non-XMP settings, and only give you the speeds listed on the package if you can enable XMP profiles...which you can't on a Pavilion Gaming 690 because HP doesn't give you the option in the BIOS. I'm pretty sure we both agree on that, and that is really all that matters in regards to figuring out what memory will actually run at 2666MHz on the 690. The stock 8GB stick that came with the system from HP was configured exactly that way: it has a 2666MHz CL19 non-XMP profile on it's SPD chip, which the BIOS picks up and happily uses.

However, I was feeling stubborn when I ran into this issue on my system and tried a variety of ill-advised and fairly technical means to overcome it. One of the things I tried was dumping an image of the BIOS, and trying to use a couple different tools to see what options were available, but disabled in the BIOS user interface. I beleive this HP system had a BIOS using AMI's base software, but I'm going from memory sp that may be wrong. Regardless, I was able to access the BIOS image I had dumped and see the settings for which options were available, but were not being displayed in the user interface. The BIOS software on the 690 absolutely had a setting to enable XMP memory profiles, as well as a one for memory voltage and one or two other memory-related settings. However, all of those options are configured not to display in the BIOS user interface so they are stuck at their default values. I tried modifying the BIOS image to enable showing those options so I could play with them, but there is some sort of BIOS protection (I think HP calls it SmartBIOS?) that would not accept my modified image when I tried to flash it to the computer. So, I know the BIOS software being used supports the option to enable XMP memory profiles, it just isn't being shown for users to change. This type of thing is pretty common in OEM systems. Dell and Lenovo do the same sort of stuff: they use a standard BIOS software stack, and turn off most of the options so end-users can't change them. Probably cuts down on support calls from people watching YouTube videos called 'how to make their computer faster with one easy click!!!'

Anyway, since my BIOS editing trick failed, I went even lower-level and over-wrote the SPD data in the non-XMP profiles of both my RAM sticks since with customized timings. The BIOS may force you to use the non-XMP profile, but it will happily try to train the memory with whatever settings are in that profile, even if they are faster than 2666MHz/CL19. As a test, I tried bumping the memory up to 2800MHz CL16, and it booted and ran just fine. I bumped it back down in teh end since I couldn't change the memory voltage and was stuck at 1.2v, but it did boot and run at a variety of different speeds and timings as long as I could program them into the non-XMP memory profile on the RAM stick its self. So, if you are feeling brave enough to potentially ruin a couple sticks of RAM, you can try to put whatever settings you want into the non-XMP profile and the 690 will attempt to use them. Trouble is, if they are too agressive and the system fails to train you will need another computer with a better memory controller to fix it...that or a soldering iron and a hardware SPD programmer! So, I really, really don't recommend doing what I did. It was a fun experiment, but the SPD programming software cost me some money and I knew there was a chance I would have to throw away two brand new sticks of RAM if I screwed anything up. Plus, since I still couldn't control memory voltage, load-line, or SOC voltage, I was pretty limited in how far I could push the memory anyway. In the end, I probably should have just gone on eBay and found another one of the 8GB memory sticks that come with the system. It would have worked right away, wouldn't have voided any warranties, and would have saved me a bunch of time and money. Anyway, I'm just rambling now, so I'll shut up!

[erico]

@bsadler_pw 

We try our best in the forum to use the K.I.S.S. method in order to avoid complicating something that could otherwise remain simple.